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Author | Topic: Flood Geology: A Thread For Portillo | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined:
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I don't know how we'd ever find out what happened to it,... Obviously you never could, as the Worldwide Atheistic Geologist Cabal has already decided it must be suppressed....."The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
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Panda Member (Idle past 3733 days) Posts: 2688 From: UK Joined:
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Coragyps writes:
...who are secretly funded by The Global Stalinist Communist Evolutionist Marxist Brigade of Nazi Baby Killers! Obviously you never could, as the Worldwide Atheistic Geologist Cabal has already decided it must be suppressed....."There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
It doesn't match the description in location or period. It's more likely to be:
Wignall, P. B., A. Hallam, X. L. Lai, and F. Q. Yang. 1995. "Palaeoenvironmental changes across the Permian/Triassic boundary at Shangsi (N. Sichuan, China). However, it's not the only possibility, and it doesn't seem to be an exact match (only two of the four authors are Chinese). Of course, the fact that the web page doesn't include the references is a count against it. It's almost as if the author doesn't want anyone to find out what the paper really says.
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
The antecedent for "them" is intended to be "angiosperm" here? Or did you mean "Arctic fox?" Its just an analogy to illustrate the angiosperm situation. Many varieties of angiosperm could have been confined to the highlands of Northerm Siberia during the Carboniferous. Northern Siberia was not even close to the arctic regions at that time. We don't find these fossils because carboniferous fossils are normally associated with certain index fossils that you would associate with only the wetlands regions. I don't know of any studies of the fauna /flora that were living in dry highlands during the period when wet lowlands were mainly predominant.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Do you know the meaning of the word "flood"?
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
Do you know the meaning of the word "flood"?
Can you explain your point? I thought we were referring to Carboniferous angiosperms.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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The meaning is pretty simple and clear. The topic is Flood Geology.
You need to explain the mechanism for the imaginary Biblical Flood that never happened but supposedly covered everything to exclude the imaginary highland angiosperms. So far you have presented no evidence, no model, no mechanism. nothing, nada, nyet,Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 755 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined:
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I don't know of any studies of the fauna /flora.... Of course you don't! You are merely Making Shit Up as you go!"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
It doesn't seem to be flooding at all. The only clear mention of floods is the reduction in flood deposits in the Triassic, which hardly helps your case. Even worse, only the increased erosion is said to be global - everything else comes from a report about a single location Well that's my point, the P-T boundary shows loss of vegetation throughout many continents of earth, and increased erosion. Floods can do this, so can tectonics, or maybe both together, or something else that removed the vegetation first. I am not saying I have proved the flood, I am saying there is indication of a worldwide loss of vegetation and erosion event that could point to a flood. The PT boundary is unique in the extremity of this event. As you correctly point out they focussed on Antarctica, but this was not because this area was unique. They focussed on this area because it represented conditions at the PTB, and they wanted to understand the PTB better, not just Antarctica.
For Upper Permian and Lower Triassic strata, a number of studies have identified this change as the result of the loss of plants and increased erosion associated with the end-Permian Mass extinction. Such relationships have been identified in South Africa, Spain, eastern Australia, Russia, and Antarctica. This study re-examines the fluvial deposits in the central Transantarctic Mountains (CTM), Antarctica to better understand the controls on sedimentation during the Late Permian and Early Triassic. During the Permian these flood basins were under filled, at the late Permian/PTB they were overfilled (filled up with sedimentation.) Not just in Antactica:Karoo Page not found – Fossil Fuel Foundation Australiahttp://vibexp.com.au/pdf/fielding_et_al_1993.pdf Russia http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S0037073899000093
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
The meaning is pretty simple and clear. The topic is Flood Geology. You need to explain the mechanism for the imaginary Biblical Flood that never happened but supposedly covered everything to exclude the imaginary highland angiosperms. So far you have presented no evidence, no model, no mechanism. nothing, nada, nyet, What more do you need? Worldwide layer of clay, plus sedimentary filling in many of the major flood-basins of earth. A PT boundary loss of vegetation across flood basins on many continents. A simultaneous eroding across many flood-basins across earth. Something major happened, and waterborne sediments filled up flood-basins across earth. A flood at the PT boundary is at the least a theory worth examining. Do you know that the experts are still arguing among themselves what actually caused the death event at the PTB? yet a worldwide flood is discarded. The end cretaceous extinction is clear, an impact event, iridium layer across earth. I think its time for a bit of consensus about the PTB too. I have described the mechanism earlier. The ice caps melted, the glaciation melted, the air was seeded by volcanic activity, volcanic activity causes torrential downpours. the landscape was low-lying. there is a recorded marine transgression plus recorded overfilling of flood-basins across earth. Not conclusive , but there is some evidence there.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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A flood at the PT boundary is at the least a theory worth examining. There's a little problem with the dating--you're off by just about 250 million years. Whoopsie! You can't just pull one little piece of information out and hold it up, shouting "Eureka!" while ignoring tens of thousands of contrary facts. That's creation "science," not real science.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
Of course you don't! You are merely Making Shit Up as you go! If insults were a sign of intelligence, you a genius! I am learning as I go along, that's what I like about these discussions they force me to do research. If you would like to show me any studies of carboniferous fauna/flora in the thinner air highlands regions of the carboniferous rather than the more common swamp areas, I would like to see it. It would be foolish to assume the entire earth was covered in swamps. It was not, otherwise the carboniferous coal would be even more widespread than it currently is. Unfortunately the main idex fossils that even show a layer to be carboniferous, are swamp animals.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I need your explanation of the mechanism for the imaginary Biblical Flood that never happened but supposedly covered everything to exclude the imaginary highland angiosperms.
And of course the Biblical Flood is not considered since it has already been refuted. The Biblical Flood never happened and anyone making such a claim is simply wrong.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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mindspawn Member (Idle past 2680 days) Posts: 1015 Joined: |
I will discuss the dating faults in another thread one day. In the meantime do you have any evidence to contradict a worldwide flood at the PT boundary? Maybe you know enough about geology to comment on the sediments that filled up these flood-basins across earth. I don't know about it, but if you discuss that point I will research it as well. Maybe the grain sizes are not consistent with flood sedimentation?
Other than rock dating, have you got any more of these "thousands of facts" to give me, that would contradict any major flood at the PTB?
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Percy Member Posts: 22479 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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mindspawn writes: Well that's my point, the P-T boundary shows loss of vegetation throughout many continents of earth, and increased erosion. Floods can do this,... It's not possible to tell what you're claiming floods can do. Do you mean that floods can cause a loss of vegetation? That floods can cause increased erosion? Both? Since flood deposits do not resemble fluvial deposits, let's assume you just meant that floods can cause a loss of vegetation. Your claim then becomes that a global flood denuded the landscape world-wide, and after the flood receded there was increased erosion from the denuded landscape.
I am not saying I have proved the flood, I am saying there is indication of a worldwide loss of vegetation and erosion event that could point to a flood. You might consider trying the much more likely scenario that the Siberian Traps threw massive amounts of dust into the air for millions of years, sending the planet into an extended global winter that killed much life everywhere. When the ice finally receded from a landscape now shorn of vegetation erosion would be greatly increased. We have actual evidence of the Siberian Traps, but no evidence of any global flood.
As you correctly point out they focused on Antarctica, but this was not because this area was unique. They focused on this area because it represented conditions at the PTB, and they wanted to understand the PTB better, not just Antarctica. More correctly, this region of Antarctica represented conditions of the PTB in that area. Some of these conditions would be representative of many geologic eras, some would be generatlly representative of the PTB, and others would be uniquely local. You certainly cannot do what you're attempting, just assume that conditions of the PTB layer in this Antarctic region are generally representative of the PTB layer everywhere.
During the Permian these flood basins were under filled, at the late Permian/PTB they were overfilled (filled up with sedimentation.) Not just in Antactica: Karoo Page not found – Fossil Fuel Foundation Australiahttp://vibexp.com.au/pdf/fielding_et_al_1993.pdf Russia http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S0037073899000093 I think we all agree that denudation of the landscape and increased erosion is a characteristic generally representative of the PTB. What is not generally representative is any evidence of a global flood. --Percy
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