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onifre
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 676 of 683 (677150)
10-27-2012 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 673 by herebedragons
10-26-2012 10:09 AM


Re: Completely inappropriate
It was just a needless racial insult that would have been equally insulting regardless of the racial / ethnic group referenced.

Racial? Anti-semitic, yes, but not racial, right?

Jewish isn't a racial or ethnic group, is it? I've always been confused by this.

- Oni

Edited by onifre, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 673 by herebedragons, posted 10-26-2012 10:09 AM herebedragons has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 677 by NoNukes, posted 10-28-2012 2:04 AM onifre has responded
 Message 678 by herebedragons, posted 10-28-2012 2:15 AM onifre has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9452
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 677 of 683 (677218)
10-28-2012 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by onifre
10-27-2012 9:53 AM


Re: Completely inappropriate
Race is a fairly non scientific description. We essentially let people self identify their race. But ethnic group simply means a collection of people having something of cultural significance in common. Jews certainly have that.

What would be your argument that Jews do not constitute an ethnic group.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by onifre, posted 10-27-2012 9:53 AM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 679 by onifre, posted 10-28-2012 4:38 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1298
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 678 of 683 (677221)
10-28-2012 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 676 by onifre
10-27-2012 9:53 AM


Re: Completely inappropriate
Racial? Anti-semitic, yes, but not racial, right?

Jewish isn't a racial or ethnic group, is it? I've always been confused by this.

I misspoke when I said "racial insult." They are not really considered a racial group, no. But they are an ethnic group. They are associated by a common trait, which is their religion but with an emphasis on a common heritage. The common heritage is what sets them apart from say Muslims or Christians which are not considered to be ethnic groups.

Wikipedia:

quote:
An ethnic group is a group of people whose members are identified through a common trait. This can, but does not have to, include an idea of common heritage, a common culture, a shared language or dialect.The group's ethos or ideology may also stress common ancestry and religion, as opposed to an ethnic minority group which refers to race.

Just the fact that you can refer to antisemitism suggests that there is a group that can be identified by this term, thus, they can be considered an ethnic group.

But all this kinda misses the point. I wasn't defending Jews or Panda even, but the guy couldn't contribute anything reasonably sane to the discussion so he began resorting to ethnic hate-mongering. I left it up to the moderators as to whether this behavior should be allowed on this forum; and I guess not.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for. But until the end of the present exile has come and terminated this our imperfection by which "we know in part," I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 676 by onifre, posted 10-27-2012 9:53 AM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 680 by onifre, posted 10-28-2012 4:40 PM herebedragons has not yet responded

onifre
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 679 of 683 (677258)
10-28-2012 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 677 by NoNukes
10-28-2012 2:04 AM


Re: Completely inappropriate
What would be your argument that Jews do not constitute an ethnic group.

In that I could become Jewish tomorrow and my ethnicity would still be hispanic or latino or what have you. No one would define me as Jewish. I didn't think belief or a religious group could also double as an ethnicity.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 677 by NoNukes, posted 10-28-2012 2:04 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 680 of 683 (677259)
10-28-2012 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 678 by herebedragons
10-28-2012 2:15 AM


Re: Completely inappropriate
They are associated by a common trait, which is their religion but with an emphasis on a common heritage.

As I said to NoNukes, I could become Jewish tomorrow and my ethnicity woulld still be hispanic. I would have no common heritage but all the belief and title of Jewish.

The common heritage is what sets them apart from say Muslims or Christians which are not considered to be ethnic groups.

I always saw Jews as the same. Heritage is found in all religion really.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 678 by herebedragons, posted 10-28-2012 2:15 AM herebedragons has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1097 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 681 of 683 (677480)
10-30-2012 6:10 AM


Spam for tea!
Emmaking is a spammer.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 682 of 683 (677483)
10-30-2012 7:07 AM


Wiping The Slate Clean
This discussion thread is closing. Summations should close it down. We now have a 4.0. Thanks to all!
Admin
Director
Posts: 12436
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 683 of 683 (677494)
10-30-2012 8:29 AM


Please report discussion problems over at Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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