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Author Topic:   How novel features evolve #2
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 277 of 402 (675439)
10-11-2012 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by zaius137
10-11-2012 2:57 AM


Re: Why is it not novel?
I think that I explained my position about novelty. The process of utilizing citrate was already at play in this organism under anaerobic conditions. A series of mutations allowed the adaptation of moving citrate threw the cell wall into the cell under aerobic conditions. The process was well known but the implementation was adaptive to improve a inept existing function not novel.
It is important to note that the authors speak from a preconceived notion that evolution is in fact the only mechanism that exists in biology. Mutations never provided more that a few SNP’s and a duplication for this adaptation. It is the same error that evolutionists have always made; their conclusions out stretch the evidence. One can ask how the coding for the protein (citT) was there in the first place.
My basic argument still remains intact evolution never add de-novo sequences.
But its absurd. By your same logic there can never be any novel ideas written down because they're just going to be combinations of pre-existing words and letters and never de-novo. As I said in Message 218:
quote:
Think of it this way: There's only 27 letters in the alphabet. All words are just going to be combinations of those pre-existing letter. No new letters come about so according to the Creation mindset; no new information can ever be created. A new book comming out tomorrow with totally novel ideas cannot be considered new information, according to the Creation mindset, because its just using already existing words and letters so no new information is really created.
But that's bullshit. Of course new information can come out by combining pre-existing words and letters to form new ideas. Just like new information can come about from mutations to DNA that re-arrange the ATCG's into new combinations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by zaius137, posted 10-11-2012 2:57 AM zaius137 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by zaius137, posted 10-11-2012 11:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 282 of 402 (675538)
10-12-2012 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by zaius137
10-11-2012 11:55 PM


Re: Why is it not novel?
Try just dropping a continuous string of letters together by random or for that matter, drop a string of random words together. What new information did you get?
You're right, that if its completely random then you won't get much. But the Theory of Evolution doesn't describe it as being completely random, there is a selective pressure too.
So, in this case, it be like throwing a handful of Scrabble tiles on the floor and then selecting the groups of tiles that did happen to make words, pickinging up the rest of the tiles that didn't, and then throwing them back out again, selecting the groups of tiles that did happen to make words, pickinging up the rest of the tiles that didn't, and then throwing them back out again, and so on.
Soon enough, you'll have yourself some words that have been randomly generated from the tiles. You see, though, its not completely random because you have that selective pressure.
Give me one example of truly new information being originated in the genome, it is simply a rearrangement of existing information.
Any time a mutation adds anything to the genome it is truly new information. Just like you can rearrange existing words to form new ideas, a rearrangement of existing genomic information is the origination of new information in the genome.
In the case of the E. coli, that one section of the genome was copied and pasted, and it resulted in an whole novel ability for the species.
SNP’s and inversions do not make new information. They simply rearrange or disrupt the existing background for adaptation to new functionality.
Again, with this logic, nobody can ever write down a novel idea because they're just using existing words. But we know that's bullshit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by zaius137, posted 10-11-2012 11:55 PM zaius137 has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 291 of 402 (675799)
10-16-2012 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by zaius137
10-15-2012 8:09 PM


Re: My straw man can kick your ass!
So do you really believe this crap or are you just scoring debate points?
'Cause I could explain evolution to you... but you seem to just want to oppose any sense of it rather than try to understand it.
So? Yea or nay?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by zaius137, posted 10-15-2012 8:09 PM zaius137 has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 395 of 402 (677682)
10-31-2012 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 393 by mindspawn
10-31-2012 1:49 PM


Re: adding an extra functional gene
Under the assumption of evolution the human Y chromosome isn't a recent development, but has been accumulating mutations for hundreds of millions of years.
Hundreds of millions of years ago, it would not have been a human Y chromosome. Humans weren't alive that long ago.
The current state of the Y chromosome is not reflecting enough mutations if evolutionary time frames are true.
Sure it is. You can't say that it has to have evolved by X much, because the selective pressures could weed out many of the mutations. There is not a minimum amount of mutation that must happen over a given timeframe.
But by comparing it to ealier human Y chromosomes, we can see that it has too many mutations to have happend in the last <10,000 years. There is a maximum amount of mutation that can be said to have happened within a given timeframe.
By studying the human Y chromosome, we can see that the creation scenario is impossible and we can see that the evolutionary scenario is plausible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 393 by mindspawn, posted 10-31-2012 1:49 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by mindspawn, posted 11-01-2012 2:31 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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