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Author Topic:   States petition for secession
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 384 (679352)
11-13-2012 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Rahvin
11-13-2012 12:28 PM


Re: Didn't we already address this issue?
Yes, the US Civil War was a precedent but that does not mean it cannot change. Dred-Scott set a precedent.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Rahvin, posted 11-13-2012 12:28 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 17 of 384 (679354)
11-13-2012 12:38 PM


US Federal Jobs.
Currently the ten states with the highest number of Federal employees are California, Virginia, Texas, Maryland, Florida, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, Washington and Ohio. Most of those jobs would immediately disappear and some would be replaced by a consulate or embassy position.
source

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by fearandloathing, posted 11-13-2012 12:42 PM jar has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 18 of 384 (679355)
11-13-2012 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
11-13-2012 12:38 PM


Re: US Federal Jobs.
The loss of the money generated by military bases would devastate many communities, Fayettville NC would surely hate to see Fort Bragg shut down.
Edited by fearandloathing, : spelling

Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
― Isaac Asimov
"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 11-13-2012 12:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 12:48 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied
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Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(2)
Message 19 of 384 (679357)
11-13-2012 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by fearandloathing
11-13-2012 12:42 PM


Re: US Federal Jobs.
Yeah, the infrastructure of our country is so interwoven that the attempting to separate would place such undue hardship upon the citizenry of the state attempting to do so. Again, it just seems like those who are advancing this idea are not even concerned with the actual details that would come along.
@ Rahvin - I agree that we should have all learned our lesson from that whole Civil War thingy that happened. However, I will say that the infighting/arguing I saw this year was far more aggressive than any prior election year that I have seen.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. -Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. -Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing!
What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. -Robin Williams-

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(6)
Message 20 of 384 (679358)
11-13-2012 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 10:52 AM


Hi Tempe 12ft Chicken
PS - Texas is already at 60,000 signatures and only 25,000 are required for the White House to respond to the petition, so they should get an answer soon. I have a funny feeling it will be a resounding "No".
Let Texas go: it would be no great loss, and then we can let all the other people move to the new nation of Texas in exchange for all those who would like to move out..
  1. Texas is a net taker of federal funds, so this would improve the budget and the economy.
  2. Texas electoral votes (reliable "red" state with 38 votes) would be removed from future election calculations, thus letting the rest of the country to be more liberal
  3. Texas exerts an out of proportion amount of effect on classroom text books, watering down science, so we could be freed of this effect.
  4. This would reduce the senate GOP by two, making it 53 dems, 43 gops, 2 independents (and 43/98 = 43% ...)
  5. This would reduce the representative GOP by 22, dems by 10, for net reduction of 12
Overall a benefit for the rest of us.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 10:52 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Coragyps, posted 11-13-2012 2:15 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 45 by tesla, posted 11-15-2012 10:31 AM RAZD has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 21 of 384 (679360)
11-13-2012 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by fearandloathing
11-13-2012 12:42 PM


Re: US Federal Jobs.
It's not just the Federal jobs. The nation of Texas would lose funding for about 350,000 positions but only about 2% of the land area is US Federal property, but in North Carolina almost 12% of the land is Federal Property.
That land would either have to be excluded from the state or the US compensated for its value.
Other states like California face even larger financial burdens since over 40% of the land area in California is US Federal Property.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by fearandloathing, posted 11-13-2012 12:42 PM fearandloathing has seen this message but not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 22 of 384 (679362)
11-13-2012 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 10:52 AM


Hi Tempe 12ft Chicken
According to the website The White House 30 states have begun petitions to secede from the United States of America. ...
Seeing as they have virtually identical wording and phrasing, I suspect an organized movement (like ALEC) of being behind this, rather that citizen uprising ...
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 10:52 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 23 of 384 (679364)
11-13-2012 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 10:52 AM


According to the website The White House 30 states have begun petitions to secede from the United States of America.
But this is not true. No state has petitioned to secede. Crazy people have petitioned that those states should secede.
While most of the states were states that went to Romney in last week's election, there were a few states that were kind of surprising. These include both Colorado and Oregon.
Well, not only can crazy people living in those states start a petition to secede, so can crazy people living outside those states. If a nut living in Alabama wants Oregon out of the union, then he can start a petition saying so. So the Oregon petition is unsurprising not just because it can be started if there's one nut living in Oregon, but because it can be started if there's one nut not living in Oregon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 10:52 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 24 of 384 (679366)
11-13-2012 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by RAZD
11-13-2012 12:57 PM


3.Texas exerts an out of proportion amount of effect on classroom text books, watering down science, so we could be freed of this effect.
Justaminnit, RAZD!!!! The water we add to that science is PURE OGALLALA AQUIFER WATER, pumped at no inconsiderable expense from out of the Caprock right up the road towards Lubbock! Don't be defaming our State Board of Education!

This message is a reply to:
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Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 25 of 384 (679367)
11-13-2012 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Dr Adequate
11-13-2012 1:54 PM


You are Correct...
Dr Adequate writes:
But this is not true. No state has petitioned to secede. Crazy people have petitioned that those states should secede.
You are correct and I should have been more clear in the opening that this is not from the states, but rather from some members of their population. However, every one that I looked at, even states that would not be expected (I did not check all of them) seemed to be started by someone in the state. Although, this does fit in perfectly with your comment of one nut living in Oregon could have started it.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. -Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. -Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing!
What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. -Robin Williams-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-13-2012 1:54 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 26 of 384 (679373)
11-13-2012 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 12:17 PM


Re: Foreign Nationals
As I understand how it works, you do not need to be a US citizen to serve in the US military. Military service is a path to citizenship, but I do not believe that it is a requirement. For example, we have gotten many Phillipinos enlisting and retiring to go home to live in the Phillipines and receive their retirement pay there (one Navy CAPT I served with was involved in a fraud investigation where the family did not report the death of the retired member and kept cashing his checks).
No idea about Social Security in such a case, though.
PS
Also, if it were to happen, should build a wall around Texas to keep illegal immigrants from coming into the United States?
Oh, most definitely build the tallest wall we can!
Edited by dwise1, : PS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 12:17 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 27 of 384 (679376)
11-13-2012 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 10:52 AM


There's a long history of secession movements in this country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secession_in_the_United_States.
Here's a list of secession proposals: http://en.wikipedia.org/...of_U.S._state_secession_proposals. I didn't see the ones that you have mentioned. Just more of the same type of wing-nuttery that Republicans have sunk to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 10:52 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 3:32 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


Message 28 of 384 (679379)
11-13-2012 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by dwise1
11-13-2012 3:15 PM


LMAO! America! Home of the Free....unless things don't go our way and then we will seriously discuss leaving the Union.
I was unaware how often secession had been a topic, but it seems that whenever we get our rights infringed upon slightly our first reaction is...Screw this, I am outta here!
I would also like to point out that if this is Repubs completing these petitions, weren't they the individuals during the Bush administration saying, "if you don't like it, then leave the country"! They did not say, "If you don't like it, leave the country but please take some land with you."
abe - The ones we are talking about are not legislative measures to secede at this time, but rather some members of the population have asked to secede through the whitehouse.gov petition site. You can find the full list following the link in the OP.
Edited by Tempe 12ft Chicken, : No reason given.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. -Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. -Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. -Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing!
What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. -Robin Williams-

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by dwise1, posted 11-13-2012 3:15 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by fearandloathing, posted 11-13-2012 4:09 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied
 Message 43 by NoNukes, posted 11-14-2012 5:10 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied

  
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 29 of 384 (679383)
11-13-2012 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
11-13-2012 3:32 PM


Petitions
The ones we are talking about are not legislative measures to secede at this time, but rather some members of the population have asked to secede through the whitehouse.gov petition site.
This is a new thing, the We the People program was launched last year, it says White House will respond to any petition that receives 25,000 or more signatures within 30 days.

Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
― Isaac Asimov
"You don't have to burn books to destroy a culture. Just get people to stop reading them" - Ray Bradbury

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 11-13-2012 3:32 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 30 of 384 (679385)
11-13-2012 4:19 PM


Sounds like a few on the right are just employing some of Saul D. Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."
Folks shouldn't object to that, should they?

Replies to this message:
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