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Author Topic:   Creationism Road Trip
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 583 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(1)
Message 181 of 409 (680297)
11-19-2012 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:02 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
faith writes:
Yes, the geological column all over the world had to have been formed by the Flood.
Why did it have to be formed by the flood? You cannot think of any other mechanism that would form those layers?
Why is it that dinosaurs are found with their eggs and nests all intact and not scattered all over the world as the flood would have produced? In fact, much of the fossil record contains completely articulated skeletons of various creatures. How could a force as powerful as a worldwide flood drown these animals and have them floating around for a year and then deposit their skeletons in sediments in perfectly articulated form?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:02 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Boof
Member (Idle past 247 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


Message 182 of 409 (680298)
11-19-2012 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:02 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Faith writes:
I have NO idea what you are talking about. Again, I am responding to a particular shallenge about Vishnu schist. Period. Yes, the geological column all over the world had to have been formed by the Flood.
OK, lets take this step by step.
1) There is a type of metamorphic rock called 'eclogite' - here is the wiki page. This rock is found in a variety of locations around the world (see the section on 'distribution').
2) Scientists can tell from the minerals in the rock that it must form at pressures of >1.2 GPa. This means it forms at burial depths of at least 45km and (according to wiki) up to 150km.
3) According to you, the entire Geological Column was formed by the Flood. Thus Eclogites were formed during the flood 4000-6000 years ago (you seem confused on this).
4) It follows that, 4000-6000 years ago the eclogites were at 45-150km depth (see points 1) and 2).)
My question to you is
How, according to the flood model, did they get to the Earth's surface (where they are now) from those extreme depths in 4000-6000 years? In your answer you must consider why noone noticed this sudden exhumation and also why these rocks did not melt as aresult of sudden depressurisation.
Thankyou.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:02 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:47 AM Boof has replied
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:46 AM Boof has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 583 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(3)
Message 183 of 409 (680300)
11-19-2012 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:20 AM


Re: Getting to the details.
faith writes:
Remember the volcano beneath as well as the layers above. And remember also that those were very very wet sediments. Adds a bit of weight.
Volcanic heat cannot turn thousands of feet of sediment into metasedimentary schist. It will either melt it and assimilate it into the magma or it will metamorphose only a thin layer just where the contact with the magma is.
As far as the weight of wet sediments go, water has a specific gravity of 1 gram/cm3. The average sedimentary rock has a specific gravity of 2.5 grams /cm3. Therefore, 2 miles of wet sediments would have less weight than 2 miles of dry sedimentary rock.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 184 of 409 (680301)
11-19-2012 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by foreveryoung
11-19-2012 12:21 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
People are always trying to explain SOME of the layers, or just one, as formed by the Flood and the others by other means. There is no difference in their appearance one from another when you see a deep stack of them, such as in the Grand Canyon especially where the stack is a mile deep (it is clear that originally there was at least another mile of strata above that originally). Different mechanisms for the formation of identical layers makes no sense. Also, the extent of the layers horizontally with such flatness doesn't fit anything that occurs now that I'm aware of. Besides, the scale of a worldwide Flood requires such evidence, WORLDwide.
There's no reason to believe the Flood was violent in itself, though tumbling land mass would certainly have been pretty violent -- that dinosaur bed in --Colorado? Wyoming? Somewhere up there -- makes it look like those creatures took quite a beating as they tumbled around in the mud. But I see no problem with some creatures being preserved quite intact, depending on accidental factors. Some things could simply have been rapidly buried in the mudslides. And who said anything was floating around for a year? Why do you assume it would have been buried as a skeleton rather than as the whole creature? The deposition of sediments could have begun fairly soon in the Flood. This part I don't know a lot about, but maybe the Biblical Geology guy does.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 12:21 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 12:48 AM Faith has replied
 Message 187 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 12:52 AM Faith has replied
 Message 202 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-19-2012 3:09 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 185 of 409 (680302)
11-19-2012 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Boof
11-19-2012 12:24 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
You are pretty much asking me to take a course that I don't have time for at the moment. Perhaps tomorrow I can put some time in on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 12:24 AM Boof has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 12:58 AM Faith has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 583 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(5)
Message 186 of 409 (680303)
11-19-2012 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:40 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Hey Friend. I was right where you were as little as 2 years ago. Little by little, I gained enough knowledge in pursuing my geology degree that I had to give up my belief in a worldwide flood that covered all the mountains 4300 years ago. Even before I did that, I adjusted the time scale to almost one million years and made a wide accommodation for a different interpretation of genealogies. I tried every conceivable way to make it all fit however loosely to a YEC interpretation of Genesis. I can continue to break down your arguments into their separate components and show how they don't work, but I fear the risk of alienating you as many did me when they tried to show me the same thing. If you can take it as honesty criticism then I will continue.
Edited by foreveryoung, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:54 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Boof
Member (Idle past 247 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


Message 187 of 409 (680304)
11-19-2012 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:40 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Faith writes:
People are always trying to explain SOME of the layers, or just one, as formed by the Flood and the others by other means. There is no difference in their appearance one from another when you see a deep stack of them, such as in the Grand Canyon especially where the stack is a mile deep (it is clear that originally there was at least another mile of strata above that originally). Different mechanisms for the formation of identical layers makes no sense. Also, the extent of the layers horizontally with such flatness doesn't fit anything that occurs now that I'm aware of. Besides, the scale of a worldwide Flood requires such evidence, WORLDwide.
Hi again Faith. Are you aware that similar geological layers occur on Mars. Do you contend that these are the result of a global flood on Mars? Why would God do that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:56 AM Boof has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 188 of 409 (680305)
11-19-2012 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by foreveryoung
11-19-2012 12:48 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
FEY there is no way you can possibly get me to give up the Biblical time scale of the Flood and I'm very sorry that you gave it up, if in fact you really had a grip on it. I may be wrong about some particulars but so far my view of it continues to make sense to me and even gets stronger the more I learn about geology. Your attacks are just the speculations of a geology student and your visualizations of the Flood are not very good. Sorry.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 12:48 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 12:56 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 189 of 409 (680306)
11-19-2012 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by Boof
11-19-2012 12:52 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
It would show that there had been water to some depth there if so but I looked at pictures of Mars a while back and saw no strata.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 12:52 AM Boof has not replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 583 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


Message 190 of 409 (680307)
11-19-2012 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:54 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Why do you say 4300 years for the time of the flood is a biblical time scale?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:59 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Boof
Member (Idle past 247 days)
Posts: 99
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


Message 191 of 409 (680308)
11-19-2012 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:47 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
You are pretty much asking me to take a course that I don't have time for at the moment. Perhaps tomorrow I can put some time in on it.
No - I am asking for you to reserve judgement in fields where you do not have the appropriate expertise. Unfortunately you seem all too happy to disregard the input from a vast variety of professionals and academics in various fields in which you freely admit you have no significant knowledge. I wonder do you ever have the urge to barge to the front of a 747 to tell the pilot how to land?
Anyway - study up! I'd be very interested to hear your response.
Edited by Boof, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:04 AM Boof has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 192 of 409 (680309)
11-19-2012 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 190 by foreveryoung
11-19-2012 12:56 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
4300 years AGO, or about 2300 BC, I said it wrong once. It's derived from the ages of the patriarchs up to Noah.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 12:56 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 1:05 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 193 of 409 (680310)
11-19-2012 1:04 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Boof
11-19-2012 12:58 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
Let's get one thing straight. I believe the Bible is the word of God who made you, me and this entire Creation. His word has been understood for centuries by people just as "expert" as all you scientists, to show that He brought a great Flood on the earth to punish the sins of humanity and that this occurred about 4300 years ago. I do not feel I'm being arrogant in my pursuit of this because my aim is to serve Him, my Master, my Creator, and to be true to His word, and in fact if there's any arrogance in this project it's on the side of those who have the effrontery to tell God He's wrong. THAT is REAL arrogance.
I'll try to get back tomorrow to answer your question.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 12:58 AM Boof has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 1:09 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 200 by PaulK, posted 11-19-2012 2:10 AM Faith has replied
 Message 203 by Boof, posted 11-19-2012 4:15 AM Faith has replied
 Message 204 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-19-2012 6:32 AM Faith has replied

  
foreveryoung
Member (Idle past 583 days)
Posts: 921
Joined: 12-26-2011


(2)
Message 194 of 409 (680311)
11-19-2012 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
11-19-2012 12:59 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
faith writes:
4300 years AGO, or about 2300 BC, I said it wrong once. It's derived from the ages of the patriarchs up to Noah.
Ok. That patriarchal linage only supports the time of a flood. It does not necessarily specify the scientific nature of the flood. I will agree that there was a very large local flood near the black sea and the caspian sea about the time the bible indicates the flood of noah. These peoples were displaced and migrated to the first known area of western civilization...the sumerian empire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 12:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 11-19-2012 1:06 AM foreveryoung has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 195 of 409 (680312)
11-19-2012 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 194 by foreveryoung
11-19-2012 1:05 AM


Re: The ENTIRE geological column.
You have abandoned God's word for the vaporings of men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 1:05 AM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by foreveryoung, posted 11-19-2012 1:09 AM Faith has replied
 Message 219 by jar, posted 11-19-2012 9:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
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