Catholicism versus Protestantism down the centuries

Show me your data. Please provide the scripture support for all this, Ms. Sola Scriptura.

Honest Protestants KNOW that they don't have a clue of whether or not they are saved and will not know until after they are dead an judged.Dishonest Protestants may THINK they know, but it will only be after they are dead and judged that they will discover the truth.Jesus death was not some cheap get outta hell card.

Ah but selling prayer hankies and all the other commercial crap marketed in particular by US Protestant Evangelists and Prosperity Gospel are fine.Got it.

That is the way it's portrayed in many Protestant traditions...and in fact this doctrine consistent with its ancestor, the "scapegoat" tradition.A village gathers with a domesticated animal, perhaps a goat. The village ceremonially casts all of their moral culpability for the past year/season/time cycle onto the goat. The thief no longer bears responsibility for having stolen - the goat now bears that responsibility. The goat is then "punished" instead of the villagers themselves, by sacrificing it or simply driving it into the wilderness.It's a very old tradition, and it's quite clearly the root of the Crucifixion myth; Christians simply use a human (or divine) sacrifice instead of the goat. The principle is identical. Instead of all individuals being punished according to their crimes, an uninvolved third party is punished instead.The whole point of the exercise is a "cheap get outta hell card."

Now Jar, you know darn well that them there folks aren't True Protestants (TM)......

You don't give the context here but I assume this is Paisley talking and he's saying that if "they" (the Catholics I assume) "don't behave themselves" (that is, if they attack Protestants I assume) then the Protestants will retaliate?This would seem to confirm what I said, that the Protestants are on the defensive in Ireland. IF the Catholics don't behave THEN the Protestants will retaliate. If I'm making sense of this quote. Turning the other cheek was said to individuals, not to governments. We can't turn the other cheek on behalf of others in our nation or our friends and family who would suffer if we didn't defend them. Oh but it is. To lose some battles would be to put your neighbor in harm's way. Even your enemy . To lose to Catholicism in an ultimate way would be to bring back the Holy Roman Empire on a global scale, and the Inquisition which murdered people. It's not? Telling the truth and denouncing evil is somehow a violation of loving one's enemy? What a strange reading of scripture.Oh I love Ian Paisley for having had the courage to do that, to stand up in the European Parliament where he was a member and denounce the Pope who had been invited to speak without the members being consulted.You seem to confuse loving one's enemy with tolerating unrighteousness and out and out evil. We ARE to love our PERSONAL enemies in that way, and to suffer harm at their hands if need be, in the hope of saving them, but again you are applying to a nation what was addressed only to individuals. You seem to be telling whole Protestant nations to be passive and just let evil run over us. Wouldn't the Pope like THAT now. That one I definitely need verified. I've seen a clip of him answering a reporter who was trying to blame the Catholic-Protestant wars on the Protestants, saying that it was the Catholics who were attacking the Protestants and stirring things up, not the other way around. No, not as you are presenting it, as I say above. Pacifism is not Christian doctrine when it comes to wars of righteousness. Love is not passivity. Yes, I know you do. The Catholic Church is only going to give you a tiny little number in comparison with the reality so I do need to dig up these facts, which I want to do for my blog anyway. The problem is that I hear these things as quotations from books and I hear them on radio shows and even if they're repeated many many times and sources are cited the sources may not be available to me. But I'll see what I can do.However I did give you the answer to your population figure somewhere back there. The Inquisition occurred over six centuries so to have killed the 67 million I've heard about it would have killed people at a rate of something like ten or eleven thousand a year, which doesn't challenge your population number. The Catholic Church pretty much INVENTED the Holy Roman Empire which was not the Roman Empire but their own revival, which lasted about a thousand years until the Reformation. The Roman Empire had died long before but the Roman Church retained all its regalia, and yes it WAS political. They are the only religious entity to also be a nation state. Thanks to Mussolini.But they persecuted people for HERESY, and that's a "religious" concept. And their persecutions go way back before the Inquisition got officially under way. They attacked and murdered Waldensians, for instance, a group of Bible believers who had escaped to remote areas in the Alps to avoid the Roman Church but were hunted down and killed from time to time -- on the accusation of "heresy." The Reformers later recognized the Waldenians and others that had been persecuted in the same way, Paulicians, Albigensians etc., as Bible believers in the spirit of Protestantism. Yes it is political as well as religious. The Roman Church wants to rule the world. They almost did for a thousand years and they still hate the Reformation for interfering. I know it's hard to believe these things, at least the extent of them. I had trouble believing them myself at first. See, that's just the Politically Correct line. We're all to blame, nobody in PARTICULAR is to blame, it's wrong to think the Roman Church is a particular miscreant, a secret instigator, etc etc etc. All very nicey nice, let's just forgive and forget and so on. Well, I know you'd be surprised at the actual extent of it if I could get it across to you. There is NO comparison between Protestant misbehavior and the enormities committed officially by Rome, none. But this is what I'm working on learning about. I have a blog dedicated to this topic only and I've collected a bunch of references there already, any of which COULD possibly change your mind, though really to be convinced would take many sources I'm sure. But again I've only just begun to get into this. Hope this thread gives me a kick in that direction.Hey, I'm not against Catholics you understand. This stuff is HIDDEN. I only just began to find out about it. Catholics need to be rescued from something they've just been taking for granted. I wouldn't have believed it myself except for all the different sources I've been hearing about recently. Again, on radio shows, sources that aren't easy to get hold of, old expensive books for instance. But hey, I'm working on it . Meanwhile I find the people talking about these things to be quite credible.Go listen to some stuff by ex-priest Richard Bennett. Listen to half a dozen of his videos. He has a website, Berean Beacon. Go listen to Chris Pinto's radio shows, his site is Noise of Thunder radio, but he doesn't always talk about this stuff directly and first you probably have to see his films Lamp in the Dark and Tares Among the Wheat. He's also an ex-Catholic and has been delving into this stuff for a few years now. He has a bunch of books on these things available at his site as well as his own documentary films. Then there's Ian Paisley's site, The European Institute for Protestant Studies I think it's called, tons of articles there. Boy is that a naive hope! Um, lot more to this than you keep wanting to reduce it to. Does remind me I've got my work cut out for me though.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Never mind. Sorry for this post. Carry on.Edited by Dirk, : No reason given.Edited by Dirk, : No reason given.Edited by Dirk, : No reason given.Edited by Dirk, : No reason given.

This idea doesn't seem rational or scriptural.Consider tha Rev Martin Luther King died because of our sins, and for us, he accepted the condemnation we heaped upon him.
White America realized when King was shot that he was right, "Separate is not Equal."America was remorseful.
Americans realized that they had been stone walling against the Truth in what king stood for.
Even the Kennedys including Jackie, had been suspicious and criticalf King.At his death, they all with us realized the sin they perpetuated and their reluctance to social changes.Those confessions were fine, but had they NOT done the works of the Civil Rights Acts, they could never have been said to have been saved from the guilt we could place at that generations door.(Are we on topic here?)

The way Theistic Evolution believers see this is that we are saved as a species from the all so posssible human extinction that this Atomic Age and super power Global Village could wrought upon us.We are saved as a Society if we face the Truth.
One example is Welfare.Sexual promiscuity requiring Welfare fo the sake of illegitimate babies now cost more than the whole National Defense Budget, i.e.; $1 Trillion dollars.
The large cities are off limits to the honest citizens who fear crime and violence which reigns in them, largely due to the kids who were raised by these Single Mothers.But the weakness that now grows internally in the West, in general, is also threating inveasion by te muslim patriarchs much in the fashion of the Hebrew oatriarchs attacks on the sexually promiscuous Gentile nations in the days of Moses.Truth is our savior, if we will accept it and act upon it.This is true whether applied to the Laws of Evolution, or our Politics, or our personal bank account.Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

According to this webpage: The total defense budget for 2013 is $902.3 billion, while the combined budget amounts for family and children, housing, and social protection is only $214.4 billion.You'd have a better chance of convincing people if you used facts that were true. Or maybe after looking at the actual facts you'll decide to change your mind. Personally I think I'd rather live in a country that spent more on helping its own people than on defense.--Percy

Do more research. The above Chart under-estimates surge as illustrated by the FACTS of 2011 Welfare Costs: Welfare $1 trillion in 2011
'Welfare' spending topped $1 trillion in 2011, study shows | Fox NewsBut even this figure ignores the TRUE cost of Welfare.
Medicaid is free to Welfare Single Mothers and their children.
This is an additional benefit of @$1000 month/per recepient.Then the Department of Education funds fincanial benefits of @ $400 /mo for Single mothers whose children are in Special Education, which they all seem to be.Add to this that hidden costs of Criminal Justice necessary when 70% of all violent crime in America is caused by people raised by Single Mothers.What I see and neither Democrat nor Republican will say, is that we are paying more money to create and support the Barbarians within than we spend on the Military to oppose the neighboring enemies without our walls.Edited by kofh2u, : No reason given.

Your chart claims spending on welfare in the trillions of dollars. Don't be ridiculous. Like I said, you have to have correct information before you can persuade anyone.Looking at your chart a little more carefully I see that usgovernmentspending.com has a chart building facility. Did you make up that chart yourself or copy it from someone else?Anyway, anyone can go to that website and create a chart with a false title. What you or someone evidently did back in 2010 or so was create a chart of total federal spending and gave it a title of "Welfare". Then you put a copy of that chart on your website. Right?Like I said, anyone can do this, here's an updated version of your lying "welfare" chart, maybe you want to update your website: --Percy

It seems this he and Sessions consider anything not military spending to be welfare. Education is welfare? That is ridiculous.It is amazing that single mothers are the cause of all the problems in the US. I didn't realize that we had so many virgin births.Cuz it seems kof seems to think there are no fathers responsible at all for these children.

1) I got the chart from the same web page you posted for us above.2) the numbers you gave us were speculatiuve estimate made some time ago for 2013.Here is the chart from the same site you sent me to:

I get the jest of what you mean, blame game is not my point though.Nevertheless, de facto, "there are no fathers responsible at all for these children," only Umnle Sam and his Tax Payers.I am blaming our present Culture which teaches, encourages, enables Single Mothers and absentee fathers to abound such that half ot the births are illegitimate and we must kill just as many to keep those numbers down. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.