Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,353 Year: 3,610/9,624 Month: 481/974 Week: 94/276 Day: 22/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Heat release from tectonic friction
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 102 (684069)
12-15-2012 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by TrueCreation
12-15-2012 2:24 AM


Re: Back of envelope calculation
Frictional heat dissipation isn't necessarily a problem for heat budget problems because once you initiate melting slip efficiency will increase.
This does not seem correct to me. If slip efficiency increases, you still have the problem of reducing the speed of fast moving plates to the current slow rates in the same small amount of time. The same amount of kinetic energy is still being converted to heat. Reducing friction to nil just makes it harder to argue that plate movement was once much faster than today.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by TrueCreation, posted 12-15-2012 2:24 AM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by TrueCreation, posted 12-15-2012 12:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 102 (684075)
12-15-2012 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by herebedragons
12-10-2012 10:35 AM


Re: Earthquakes
Why does a YEC model need to have land masses gathered into one place to begin with?
It wouldn't except that YEC is linked tightly to a literal, inerrant Bible. Having the continents in one place explains things like how the animals got home after the great flood and how humans scattered after the Tower of Babel was destroyed.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by herebedragons, posted 12-10-2012 10:35 AM herebedragons has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-15-2012 8:13 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 39 by Coyote, posted 12-15-2012 9:34 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 102 (684076)
12-15-2012 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by TrueCreation
12-15-2012 12:27 PM


Re: Back of envelope calculation
and is about 7 orders of magnitude less than heat content removed by lithospheric cooling.
That's fine. But I'm really asking about the effect of slip efficiency on the generation of heat. Perhaps my question is irrelevant?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by TrueCreation, posted 12-15-2012 12:27 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by TrueCreation, posted 12-15-2012 2:01 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 102 (684138)
12-15-2012 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Coyote
12-15-2012 10:52 PM


Re: Nonsense and Science
Doesn't evidence mean anything to you or your co-believers?
No it doesn't. This is news?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Coyote, posted 12-15-2012 10:52 PM Coyote has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 102 (684198)
12-16-2012 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Coyote
12-16-2012 1:27 AM


Re: Babbling
Having the continents in one place explains things like how the animals got home after the great flood and how humans scattered after the Tower of Babel was destroyed.
Actually, I wrote that stuff. I wasn't quoting Faith.
I think Faith's point is that she should have most of 4500 years rather than merely 800 to get the continents to their current places. I think we cut into that time frame quite a bit using historical and geological evidence, but to use the Phoenicians we would need some evidence about how far they actually sailed when they traveled.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Coyote, posted 12-16-2012 1:27 AM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 12-16-2012 8:08 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 102 (684264)
12-16-2012 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
12-16-2012 8:17 PM


Re: Faith and Science
My* interpretation of the Bible is the historical interpretation of the Bible that was accepted in the formative years of Geology. There's nothing peculiar to *me* about my interpretation, it's quite standard.
By formative years, you would have to mean prior to the nineteenth century back during the time when people believed that the sun and planets orbited the earth. The fact is that YEC belief was in serious decline before its revival in the twentieth century.
I don't see that I should have any obligation to prove that God claims the Earth is young when that was the standard historical Christian understanding of Genesis for all orthodox believers back to the beginning
You don't have to prove anything. But in a discussion forum it is not unreasonable to make attempts at persuasion, which generally requires evidence. I'm just not sure that such an attempt is really on topic here.
As I understand it, the purpose of this thread is to discuss whether tectonic plate friction raises any issues that reject a YEC interpretation.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-16-2012 8:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 12-16-2012 10:25 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 102 (684291)
12-17-2012 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
12-16-2012 10:25 PM


Re: Faith and Science
That is not a Biblical viewpoint, that was the pagan view of Aristotle that came into the ROMAN church via Aquinas.
Geocentric astronomy was not just the view of the church. It was the scientific view as well. There is no reason why any Christian would have rejected geocentric cosmology prior to science establishing something else.
No, I had in mind the historical BIBLICAL view that is still the view of true Christians, has never changed
I understand that. The problem is that what you had in mind is wrong. There was no universal view among Christians in the early twentieth century that the earth was only 6000 years old. I'm not even sure that it was the majority view among Christians. I don't subscribe to it now, although my wife does. I know that you define real Christians to include only those people who are YEC, but IMO, that's complete nonsense.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 12-16-2012 10:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-17-2012 1:25 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 80 of 102 (685098)
12-20-2012 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ICANT
12-20-2012 9:49 AM


Re: Back of envelope calculation
Isn't water the the cooling agent that cools the plates as they move?
It wouldn't be an effective cooling agent unless there was someplace to transfer the heat out of the water. Imagine your cars cooling system without a radiator.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ICANT, posted 12-20-2012 9:49 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by ICANT, posted 12-21-2012 12:24 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 96 of 102 (687803)
01-16-2013 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by mindspawn
01-16-2013 9:06 AM


Re: Back of envelope calculation
Just through deductive reasoning its pretty clear that if you move two plates past each other there is less friction than if you collide or grind them roughly into each other. So speculate all you want on the maths, if two plates slide smoothly over one another, this has less effect than if two plates collide, and the effect is as yet unquantified.
You aren't describing the problem set up here. At least not as I understand it.
Basically, the issue here is that if the world is only 6000 years old, then the plates must originally have been moving really fast to get into their current position. Currently the plates are observed to be moving far more slowly. That loss of kinetic energy is from friction. We can say something about the magnitude of the energy involved and about the time involved. We don't have to speculate about what happens when the plates slide smoothly over each other because that would not produce slowing.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by mindspawn, posted 01-16-2013 9:06 AM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by mindspawn, posted 01-16-2013 5:07 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 102 (687878)
01-17-2013 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by mindspawn
01-16-2013 5:07 PM


Re: Back of envelope calculation
I believe the slowdown is more related to less mantle instability than kinetic forces
I don't know what your sentence means? In order for big plates to stop moving, you cannot simply stop applying a moving force. You actually have to apply some kind of braking force. Or at least that's what Newton and I thought.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by mindspawn, posted 01-16-2013 5:07 PM mindspawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by mindspawn, posted 01-17-2013 12:56 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024