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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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The gun homicide rate is 10 times higher in the US than in Canada and the UK:
Gun ownership in the United States is higher than in any other country:
The more guns per capita the more homicides per capita. Aside from target practice and hunting, most guns are never used, but of those that *are* used the most likely target is family members. The next most likely target is friends and neighbors. Probably the least likely target is a criminal. Bringing a gun into a house only increases the risk of violent death. It makes everyone nearby less safe, not more. --Percy
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
No, we don't. Once smallpox was eradicated the benefits didn't outweigh the risks. Routine smallpox vaccination ended in 1972.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined:
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what we didn't do was say that because some thugs carry knives then everyone should. That would be preposterous wouldn't it? Of course. But there's no place for the likes of you and me, Tangle, in this discussion, because it is so bat-shit insane we cannot begin grasp the lunacy that drives it. We expect right-wing fruitcakes like Faith to think that the solution is more guns, but when you have supposed thinkers like Crash supporting this shit, that country is fucked in ways we can't even begin to imagine. As a lifelong resident, I'm no big fan of the UK, but at least we get some things right.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Thanks crashfrog. My example was completely wrong. Let's change the example to vaccinating against HPV or rubella or to washing your hands after using the bathroom.
My point is only that we shouldn't dismiss gun control simply because other risks are more significant. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
How many times have you shot guns?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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See any news source. We shouldn't be talking about gun control in the wake of this. We should be talking about our mental healthcare program. Or we should be talking about the news media responses to things like this.
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cavediver Member (Idle past 3670 days) Posts: 4129 From: UK Joined: |
How many times have you shot guns? I have no idea. I was shooting air rifles and pistols from age 7, 12-bore on clay pigeon shoots from age 11, was teaching marksmanship on .303 by age 30 (and also in charge of the armoury), and at the same time was shooting SA80 (L85, L86 LSW, and cadet.) My experience of handguns is much less, and have only shot them on no more than 10 or so occasions (and all pre-dunblane.) Is that more or less than you were expecting?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi Percy
Saw this on facebook
another way to look at it ... Enjoy?by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
We shouldn't be talking about gun control in the wake of this. Why not? You list other related topics that we should discuss. So why not gun control? When is the time to discuss gun control?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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shadow71 Member (Idle past 2960 days) Posts: 706 From: Joliet, il, USA Joined: |
Faith writes:
The intention was to preserve us from foreign enemies as well as possibly the nation's own standing army which historically easily becomes a threat to the people, but obviously it should be effective for these crazy individual enemies as well. Using this logic, shouldn't all americans have the "right" to own and possess the type weapons the army possesses.For example, tanks, rocket launchers, missles, fighter jets, nuclear weapons? How else can we defend ourselves against the government army, navy, air force and coast guard? Edited by shadow71, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CatholicScientist writes: How many times have you shot guns I shot 202 rifle for my university. I was the go-to guy for air rifle at the fair. Had my first BB gun at 13, hid it under my bed until my mum found it. What point are you trying to make?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
This is not about "gun nuts," I'm no gun nut, this is about a right and even a duty that is meant for the protection of the country. It hasn't always been used properly but now it's being threatened, and it will be a sad day when it's taken away from us.
He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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kofh2u Member (Idle past 3846 days) Posts: 1162 From: phila., PA Joined: |
How else can we defend ourselves against the government army, navy, air force and coast guard?
The ONLY way today is that citizen must use the H-bomb. In Foreign Affairs Magazine, an article describes this new asymmetrical device which the muslims are now using. The bomb is strapped onto a H-uman and personally delivered to those on the other side.All that is necessary is for the tyranny to get bad enough.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Actually I do know what the founders wanted and it was NOT an organized militia for the very reason that such a body can be used against the people which is the exact opposite of the intent of the amendment
You obviously haven't read the Constitution. A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Yes, the PEOPLE, not an army run by the state, the PEOPLE. "Well regulated" implies you don't arm people with a history of violence or mental disorder, and they need some organization and training, but if you read all those quotes I gave and especially the article at the end you should be able to see through even your own misunderstandings about this issue.
And seem to be unable to understand the vast majority of the quotes you posted. I must admit they look quite easy to understand on the face of them, but I'm sure you could correct me if I'm wrong. They intended to protect the individual citizen's right to keep and bear arms, and that IS in the amendment -- the right of the PEOPLE -- it's you who seem to have trouble reading it, and the "militia" refers to this armed citizenry, not to an organized army, which, again, would contradict the whole spirit of the amendment. Did you bother to read the article I posted a link to, about the history of the concept of a citizen army?
You are a right wing freak that no amount of reality will intrude upon your fantasy world. Thank you, I'm sure you're an intelligent thoughtful person too.
Your revisionist view of history, unquestioning belief in radical interpretations of a iron age text and hate for other people, and the people like you will destroy this country. Got all those nasty accusatory PC words in there, didn't you, to poison the well against anything I might say, and as usual those who call the right "haters" are overflowing with that particular emotion, like a venomous drip from your every pore. And it's your view that's revisionist. "Unquestioning?" I've spent a lot of time thinking about this issue and have been through quite a few different views of it as a matter of fact, not that you care about such facts. But what I've said so far is very reasonable and it's your view of this particular issue that's destroying the country. To call the Constitution an "iron age text" is to have bought the propaganda that WILL kill this country. You probably don't even have a clue where you've been getting this propaganda you've swallowed.He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Hello RAZD,
Did you read any of the quotes in my post, or that article at the end? The National Guard is not what the founders had in mind. EvC Forum: Gun Control Again Of course it's very hard to tell what matters to people here. Do they care what the Amendment says at all? If they do then I believe the quotes I've given show what the founding generation had in mind for it and it was not a standing army of any sort. The article I linked there discusses the history of the concept in a way that ought to make that quite clear. Or is the Constitution just an antiquated meaningless document that we should throw out? Which is it. Some even say both, so irrational are people on this topic.He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.
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