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Author Topic:   gravity
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 45 of 81 (688580)
01-23-2013 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by shadow71
01-23-2013 12:06 PM


quote:
In re his criticisms of logic he asserts that Schroeder's logic is flawed. An example is the "predate time" issue. Oser argues that if time starts with the BB how can you speak of anything predating it
To predate a thing it is necessary to exist at an earlier point in time.
There can be no point in time earlier than the earliest point in time by definition.
Time exists at the earliest point in time by definition.
Oser's point seems entirely reasonable. Can you come up with a real objection rather than just assuming that it is wrong ?

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 Message 44 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2013 12:06 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2013 7:01 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 53 of 81 (688638)
01-24-2013 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by shadow71
01-23-2013 7:01 PM


quote:
Time exists at the earliest point in time by your definition. by human definition
If you consider yourself to be non-human and assign different meanings to words that doesn't make Oser wrong, that just makes you incapable of understanding Oser's point.
Or are you claiming that Oser isn't human, uses a different language, and therefore doesn't mean what he seems to say ?
quote:
Oser's point is reasonable only if you believe there is no other option than naturalism
No, it doesn't assume naturalism at all.
quote:
Naturalism necessitates there is no supernatual being. If there is a supernatural being beyond time as we know it, then it is obvious that a supernatural being that created this universe, was before the time of this universe.
And that is only possibly true if there was a TIME before this universe.
Oser's point stands.
quote:
"I AM" means God was before there was you, before our universe, before anything we can ever try to learn.
It might do in your made-up "non-human" language. However, as an English phrase it has an English meaning and that isn't what you say.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by shadow71, posted 01-23-2013 7:01 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by shadow71, posted 01-27-2013 3:08 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 73 of 81 (689028)
01-27-2013 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by shadow71
01-27-2013 3:08 PM


quote:
I am discussing God, a supernatural being, omnipotent, and therefore God does exist before human time.
What on earth is "human time" and why is it relevant ?
Quite frankly you seem to be arguing that supernaturalism is nonsense and only the deluded could believe it. I wouldn't go that far myself, but it's the clear message I'm getting from your posts.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by shadow71, posted 01-27-2013 3:08 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by shadow71, posted 01-27-2013 4:45 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 76 of 81 (689037)
01-27-2013 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by shadow71
01-27-2013 4:45 PM


quote:
Let me try to clear this up one last time
You do realise that the problem was that you were talking nonsense ?
quote:
In reply to your point above, I was trying to clarify that Oser was assuming there was no time prior to the BB.
My position is, That a supernatural being, God, exists before the time of the BB and thus could have created the universe before the time started by the BB.
If you want to say that there was time before the Big Bang, then say that. Don't babble nonsense instead.
quote:
Quite the contrary I have stated several times on this board that my God is the God of the Roman Catholic Church. That God is Omnipotent and was a supernatural being before the BB. So I am not arguing that supernaturalism is nonsense. Hope this clears up my position.
I'll accept that you didn't mean to imply it. But you most certainly did.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by shadow71, posted 01-27-2013 4:45 PM shadow71 has not replied

  
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