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Author Topic:   Darwinism Cannot Explain The Peacock
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(3)
Message 31 of 165 (688902)
01-26-2013 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Bolder-dash
01-25-2013 12:05 PM


imagine if man never invented scissors or a razor. Men would be running around the woods with beards dragging four feet from their face, and their hair would be down to the ground, getting tangled up where ever they walked.
When hair gets to a length it falls out.
Ever see an old dog with 8 foot long fur? There's your answer, sport.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-25-2013 12:05 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 11:28 AM Larni has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3629 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


(1)
Message 32 of 165 (688903)
01-26-2013 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Larni
01-26-2013 11:15 AM


I see.
Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.
Edited by Bolder-dash, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Larni, posted 01-26-2013 11:15 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Larni, posted 01-26-2013 5:45 PM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 36 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-26-2013 6:06 PM Bolder-dash has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 33 of 165 (688907)
01-26-2013 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 9:55 AM


Re: The story is not complete.
I see AZ, so any traits which are prevalent in a population, are by definition examples of better fitness which have been passed on. I get it, I get it.
Like cancer, and cystic fibrosis, and aging... Cool theory.
Here you are trying to argue against evolution and you do not know what "fitness" means?
In your mind what does "fitness" in an evolutionary sense mean?
Let me give you a hint. Late stage diseases and aging have no impact on fitness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 9:55 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 34 of 165 (688908)
01-26-2013 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 10:25 AM


Re: The story is not complete.
He is convinced that the definition of a better fitness trait is one that gets passed on through generations.
If you knew what "fitness" meant you would know this is not anything close to what I said.
Or, do you know but choose to lie?
Ignorant or lying, which is it?
Edited by AZPaul3, : the usual culprits

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 10:25 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 35 of 165 (688920)
01-26-2013 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 11:28 AM


Fair enough.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 11:28 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 01-26-2013 6:37 PM Larni has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 36 of 165 (688926)
01-26-2013 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 11:28 AM


I note that in neither of those pictures is either of the subjects hopelessly tangled in the undergrowth.
But these are rarities, in any case. Normally hair doesn't do that.
(The invention of cutting hair, of braiding it up, etc presumably relaxed any evolutionary constraint on the production of really long hair.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 11:28 AM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 7:45 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 165 (688936)
01-26-2013 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Larni
01-26-2013 5:45 PM


Fair enough.
Those photos are of people with atypical hair growth. Try looking up anagen phase to see limits on hair growth typical for most humans.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Larni, posted 01-26-2013 5:45 PM Larni has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3629 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 38 of 165 (688943)
01-26-2013 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Dr Adequate
01-26-2013 6:06 PM


What is the evolutionary advantage of a big full bushy beard covering up a man's entire face? It has been sexually selected for?
Or hair growing all the way down your back?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-26-2013 6:06 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 01-26-2013 8:42 PM Bolder-dash has replied
 Message 40 by AZPaul3, posted 01-26-2013 10:04 PM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 01-26-2013 10:25 PM Bolder-dash has replied
 Message 44 by RAZD, posted 01-26-2013 10:40 PM Bolder-dash has replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 39 of 165 (688951)
01-26-2013 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 7:45 PM


Or is it just avatism?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 7:45 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 10:11 PM Larni has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 40 of 165 (688956)
01-26-2013 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 7:45 PM


What is the evolutionary advantage of a big full bushy beard covering up a man's entire face?
So, all attributes in a phenotype must have an evolutionary advantage or they would not be there? You believe this?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 7:45 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3629 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 41 of 165 (688957)
01-26-2013 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Larni
01-26-2013 8:42 PM


Me (and possibly you) would have a big full beard covering up our face and hair down at least to our butts, if we didn't cut it off all the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Larni, posted 01-26-2013 8:42 PM Larni has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by rueh, posted 01-28-2013 9:52 AM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 165 (688958)
01-26-2013 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 7:45 PM


What is the evolutionary advantage of a big full bushy beard covering up a man's entire face? It has been sexually selected for?
What is the advantage of facial hair of any length?
Not all traits are subject to natural selection. So why ask questions of this type?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 7:45 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 10:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Bolder-dash
Member (Idle past 3629 days)
Posts: 983
From: China
Joined: 11-14-2009


Message 43 of 165 (688959)
01-26-2013 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by NoNukes
01-26-2013 10:25 PM


Is fitness only fitness when you say it its?
Sometimes its important to point out how inconsistent your sides ideas are; and just asking simple questions is often enough to do just that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by NoNukes, posted 01-26-2013 10:25 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by AZPaul3, posted 01-26-2013 10:44 PM Bolder-dash has not replied
 Message 46 by Coyote, posted 01-26-2013 10:59 PM Bolder-dash has replied
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 01-27-2013 11:25 AM Bolder-dash has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 44 of 165 (688960)
01-26-2013 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 7:45 PM


What is the evolutionary advantage of a big full bushy beard covering up a man's entire face? It has been sexually selected for?
Or hair growing all the way down your back?
What has been sexually selected in humans is the apparent bareness, especially in females.
Rather than being actually bare, the bare appearing skin is covered with fine vellus hair. More ape hair traits are retained in males, including backs, chests, arms and legs hair, where terminal hair grows, while predominantly vellus hair on backs, breasts, arms and legs of females. Vellus hair is found on children, so this is a retained childhood trait in women more than men. This indicates the selection is in the females (for youthful appearance), and the male expression of apparent bareness is inherited\carryover from genes shared with females.
The (terminal hair) beard in the male also signals coming of age for mating.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 7:45 PM Bolder-dash has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 11:30 PM RAZD has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 45 of 165 (688961)
01-26-2013 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Bolder-dash
01-26-2013 10:35 PM


Re: Is fitness only fitness when you say it its?
Sometimes its important to point out how inconsistent your sides ideas are ...
Care to give us an example of this inconsistency? Not one based on your misunderstandings, which are numerous, but here's hoping you can find something and then we can tell you how and why you are wrong ... again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Bolder-dash, posted 01-26-2013 10:35 PM Bolder-dash has not replied

  
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