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Author Topic:   States petition for secession
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 292 of 384 (689359)
01-30-2013 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by dwise1
01-30-2013 1:35 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
Well in describing your ideal state, you certainly did write about arbitrarily depriving people of rights based solely on their religion and even of arbitrarily turning many into criminals by making their religious beliefs against the law. Hardly supports your current claim of being happy to let everybody believe what they want to.
In my own Christian state I don't want other ideologies, that's what I was playing around with. I want to keep the faith pure. Others then raised the possibility of people giving up the faith. What then? Well what DO you do when you want to preserve the faith of your state and don't want other ideologies undermining it? If you have laws for that purpose then somebody's rights have to be limited somehow. But I certainly said absolutely nothing about criminalizing BELIEFS, you imposed that on me. I would outlaw teaching other doctrines in my state, I'd have to if I want to preserve the faith the state is founded on. So it turns out there is no way to have this state I want to have. The Christianity of the US has already been undermined by exactly the kind of forces I'd want to limit in my own state. Apparently there's no way to prevent it in this fallen world. Again, people can believe whatever they want, but I don't want their beliefs undermining the faith my state is built on, I don't want them teaching my children and I don't want them ruling over me. You figure out how to solve this problem if it is solvable.
I do not support Barton.
I am opposed to Dominionism and Reconstructionism.
I certainly do not deserve your accusations about how I see the First Amendment but your vicious attack makes me not want to think any more about any of it.
You have no right to demand that I answer your questions or make any of the accusations you've made.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 1:35 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:02 AM Faith has replied
 Message 308 by subbie, posted 01-30-2013 9:26 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 309 by Theodoric, posted 01-30-2013 9:50 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 295 of 384 (689362)
01-30-2013 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by dwise1
01-30-2013 2:02 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS AT ALL, PERIOD. I'VE SAID THIS I BELIEVE ON MANY OCCASIONS. PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE A GUARANTEED WAY TO KILL THE CHRISTIAN FAITH OF CHILDREN. CHRISTIANS SHOULD NOT SUPPORT THEM AT ALL.
But as for the first amendment, it is absolutely stupid to put teachers in the place of Congress and apply the amendment to them. If you want to limit their activities by another standard, fine, but usuing the first amendment in that way makes no sense.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:02 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 296 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:06 AM Faith has replied
 Message 298 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:16 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 310 by Theodoric, posted 01-30-2013 9:55 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 320 by ramoss, posted 01-30-2013 9:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 297 of 384 (689364)
01-30-2013 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by dwise1
01-30-2013 2:06 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I haven't read your questions.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:06 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:18 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 300 of 384 (689367)
01-30-2013 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 299 by dwise1
01-30-2013 2:18 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
EVERY TIME I SAY ANYTHING AT ALL IT GETS MISCONSTRUED IN THE MOST CRAZY NASTY WAYS I DON'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHING MORE. WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO TALK TO ANYONE THE WAY YOU DO?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:18 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:30 AM Faith has replied
 Message 303 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:53 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 313 by xongsmith, posted 01-30-2013 11:22 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 321 by ramoss, posted 01-30-2013 10:20 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 302 of 384 (689369)
01-30-2013 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 301 by dwise1
01-30-2013 2:30 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
You aren't interested in what I think. I've given my honest opinion here many times and all it gets is twisted beyond recognition. All you want to do is accuse, just like the devil himself. I am not going to read your posts again, I am not going to answer your supposed questions, which aren't questions anyway, they are just accusations. Your evil nasty vicious accusatory attitude doesn't deserve another moment's consideration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:30 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by dwise1, posted 01-30-2013 2:57 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 311 by AZPaul3, posted 01-30-2013 11:04 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 314 of 384 (689434)
01-30-2013 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by Theodoric
01-30-2013 9:50 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I don't know enough about Dominionism and Reconstructionism to get into their theology except that they seem to believe that the world is going to become Christian before the Lord returns, so that we are supposed to be working to make the world Christian, WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE. I believe the world is getting worse and will just about self-destruct before the Lord comes back and the idea of trying to do anything to make it Christian is ridiculous. It's going to get further and further from Christianity as time goes on. Except for Catholicism which is sadly mistaken for Christianity -- THAT's going to grow and acquire power.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by Theodoric, posted 01-30-2013 9:50 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 316 by Coragyps, posted 01-30-2013 6:31 PM Faith has replied
 Message 327 by dwise1, posted 01-31-2013 1:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 315 of 384 (689435)
01-30-2013 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 311 by AZPaul3
01-30-2013 11:04 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
Your analysis of the situation isn't bad, I must admit.
But in this case I feel like the "disagreement" has become manipulative and not at all just a disagreement but more like "do you still beat your wife" that is being invented and imposed on me and has nothing to do with anything I've said. The more I try to explain the worse it gets in my experience. I DO need to take a break.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by AZPaul3, posted 01-30-2013 11:04 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by NoNukes, posted 01-30-2013 8:05 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 319 by AZPaul3, posted 01-30-2013 8:17 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 328 by dwise1, posted 01-31-2013 1:30 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 317 of 384 (689443)
01-30-2013 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by Coragyps
01-30-2013 6:31 PM


Re: First Amendment Violations
It aint going to be popularity that puts them on top.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Coragyps, posted 01-30-2013 6:31 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 322 of 384 (689471)
01-30-2013 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by ramoss
01-30-2013 10:20 PM


Re: First Amendment Violations
never mind.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by ramoss, posted 01-30-2013 10:20 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by ramoss, posted 01-30-2013 10:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 330 of 384 (689491)
01-31-2013 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by dwise1
01-31-2013 1:30 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
I haven't lied about one thing. You just keep making stuff up and imputing it to me and expecting me to account for your own suspiciousness. I refuse to get caught in your convoluted trap.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by dwise1, posted 01-31-2013 1:30 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by dwise1, posted 01-31-2013 10:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 332 of 384 (689493)
01-31-2013 3:18 AM
Reply to: Message 331 by Dr Adequate
01-31-2013 3:09 AM


Re: First Amendment Violations
Yes, it seems to me pretty clear now that theocracy can't work at all in this fallen world. I'd love to find a way to get out from under what I consider to be the current intolerable governmental tyranny but apparently there is no way. Too bad but that's the way it is. Thanks for Lewis' quote, I don't remember it although I read so much of his stuff at one time I might actually have read it and forgotten it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-31-2013 3:09 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-01-2013 4:33 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 354 of 384 (689572)
02-01-2013 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 352 by Dr Adequate
02-01-2013 4:33 AM


Re: Tyranny
Yes, that's what I want, a state where Christianity rules but that nobody is denied basic rights. All the accusations that I want a tyranny are false, I just want to be free of ideologies I despise and I wanted to see how far it might be possible to do something like that without depriving anyone of their rights. Since it seems there's no way to do that I've given up the daydream I was pursuing here.
And again I'd mention the fact that some religions are tyrannical at the core, with designs to rule the world, and that Protestantism is not one of them. Giving them political power uin a Protestant state would be like inviting the wolves to devour the sheep.
In Muslim countries you aren't allowed political power if you aren't a Muslim, and it would be stupid for them to allow it because they want to keep their state Muslim. But if I want a Christian state, which in my conception would be quite peaceloving and generous, I get accused of all kinds of terrible motivations I simply do not have. I may be naive about the feasibility of such a state but I have no desire to run other people's lives, I just don't want them running mine.
This government is BECOMING a tyranny, it's on its way there, although you apparently don't see it. Some of us have seen it coming for a long time.
Having given up on a theocracy, however, I could still consider the feasibility of red states seceding.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-01-2013 4:33 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Theodoric, posted 02-01-2013 8:16 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 357 by NoNukes, posted 02-01-2013 8:58 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 360 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-01-2013 12:21 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 364 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2013 10:09 PM Faith has replied
 Message 365 by dwise1, posted 02-02-2013 12:25 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 372 by dwise1, posted 02-02-2013 2:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 366 of 384 (689643)
02-02-2013 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by ICANT
02-01-2013 10:09 PM


Re: Tyranny
It will happen when Christ takes the throne of David. But not until then.
Absolutely. And I gotta tell ya, I've never so passionately longed for that day as I have over the last short period of, oh I don't know, weeks, months, something.
It seemed worth a thought experiment at least to convince myself there might still be a way to save the nation, but I convinced myself of the reverse. At least as far as that method goes. But maybe that's a good thing, defeat in worldly terms throws us back on the Lord for strength, and since He tells us His strength is made perfect in our weakness, let's celebrate our weakness.
You ready for what's coming down, bro? It aint gonna be pretty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2013 10:09 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by dwise1, posted 02-02-2013 12:45 AM Faith has replied
 Message 378 by ICANT, posted 02-02-2013 11:36 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 369 of 384 (689648)
02-02-2013 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by dwise1
02-02-2013 12:45 AM


Re: Tyranny
2Pe 3:3-4 ...there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by dwise1, posted 02-02-2013 12:45 AM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 370 by dwise1, posted 02-02-2013 1:23 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 371 by xongsmith, posted 02-02-2013 1:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 375 of 384 (689660)
02-02-2013 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by ICANT
02-01-2013 9:51 PM


Re: who is our brother?
Hi ICANT
I have to admit I was shocked to see Vimesey's answer to you because of YOUR statement that he was answering. I've always understood that our brother is the entire human race. It isn't appreciated here, that's for sure, but most of my remarks about guns and whatever I hope will benefit somebody here and I'm sure it's the same with you.
It isn't happening and in fact people seem to interpret it all in such ugly ways it is far from having any such positive effect, and the same will no doubt happen to this one too, and I've pretty much given up, but still, the principle is we are to do what we can for any member of the human race. The Parable of the Good Samaritan was to demonstrate that we are to care even for our enemies.
Just had to comment on this.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

He who surrenders the first page of his Bible surrenders all. --John William Burgon, Inspiration and Interpretation, Sermon II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by ICANT, posted 02-01-2013 9:51 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by RAZD, posted 02-02-2013 8:16 AM Faith has replied
 Message 382 by ICANT, posted 02-03-2013 12:09 AM Faith has replied

  
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