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Author Topic:   Is using transitional fossils as evidence for evolution circular reasoning?
CoolBeans
Member (Idle past 3640 days)
Posts: 196
From: Honduras
Joined: 02-11-2013


Message 1 of 6 (692558)
03-04-2013 11:04 PM


One of the arguments creationist use is that we would need to assume that evolution is true for us to have transitional fossils. If evolution is not true then those fossils are no transitional, even if they show transitional features.
One thing worth to note is that we should find organisms such as the tiiktaalik if evolution is true. I think it as an argument for evolution because of its predictive power.
So I would like have a discussion on this. Im not against evolution. As you may have noticed I reject that it is circular reasoning.
From the creationist point of view.
One would need to assume that evolution is true in order for there to be transitional fossils, if those fossils that have intermediate features have been created ex nihilo then those fossils are not transitional, they just have those features. This would be circular reasoning
--------
While that may seem logical they would have to explain why they also follow a pattern. For example why do fossils look more similar to as time passes to modern examples.
Edited by CoolBeans, : I added more information
Edited by CoolBeans, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 03-05-2013 9:28 AM CoolBeans has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13029
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
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(2)
Message 2 of 6 (692575)
03-05-2013 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CoolBeans
03-04-2013 11:04 PM


Hi CoolBeans,
I'm unable to make sense of this:
CoolBeans writes:
One of the arguments creationist use is that we would need to assume that evolution is true for us to have transitional fossils. If evolutiin is true then those fossils are not transitional.
More importantly, your title is about how transitional fossils are involved in circular reasoning, but there's nothing in your post about circular reasoning.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CoolBeans, posted 03-04-2013 11:04 PM CoolBeans has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by CoolBeans, posted 03-05-2013 10:02 AM Admin has replied

  
CoolBeans
Member (Idle past 3640 days)
Posts: 196
From: Honduras
Joined: 02-11-2013


Message 3 of 6 (692577)
03-05-2013 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
03-05-2013 9:28 AM


Bump

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 03-05-2013 9:28 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 03-05-2013 10:28 AM CoolBeans has seen this message but not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13029
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 4 of 6 (692578)
03-05-2013 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by CoolBeans
03-05-2013 10:02 AM


I don't see how this is an example of circular logic, and I'm still unable to make sense of this:
CoolBeans writes:
One of the arguments creationist use is that we would need to assume that evolution is true for us to have transitional fossils. If evolutiin is true then those fossils are not transitional.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by CoolBeans, posted 03-05-2013 10:02 AM CoolBeans has seen this message but not replied

  
CoolBeans
Member (Idle past 3640 days)
Posts: 196
From: Honduras
Joined: 02-11-2013


Message 5 of 6 (692586)
03-05-2013 11:24 AM


Evolution is true because there are transitional fossils. There are transitional fossils because evolution is true. Thats the point of this thread.
I mean should we ignore the fossil record because of this?
I will not argue in favor of the creationist position
Edited by CoolBeans, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Admin, posted 03-05-2013 12:34 PM CoolBeans has not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13029
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 6 of 6 (692597)
03-05-2013 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by CoolBeans
03-05-2013 11:24 AM


CoolBeans writes:
Evolution is true because there are transitional fossils. There are transitional fossils because evolution is true.
I don't think anyone actually structures the argument this way, and tons of concepts can be structured this way:
  • Magnetism is true because iron is attracted to magnets. Iron is attracted to magnets because magnetism is true.
  • The atomic theory of matter is true because matter is composed of atoms. Matter is composed of atoms because the atomic theory of matter is true.
  • Tectonics is true because mountains are built by tectonic forces. Mountains are built by tectonic forces because tectonics is true.
  • The winner is the fastest car because the fastest car wins the race. The fastest car wins the race because the winner is the faster car.
And I still don't understand this:
CoolBeans writes:
One of the arguments creationist use is that we would need to assume that evolution is true for us to have transitional fossils. If evolutiin is true then those fossils are not transitional.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by CoolBeans, posted 03-05-2013 11:24 AM CoolBeans has not replied

  
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