Morality without god

Sorry Faith but if god created everything could he not change the parameters of his own creation?

If God knows everything that will happen then he knew the end result, and if he is all powerful he could have chosen a different route - why not have the Angel of Really Tiny Penis's visit the Egyptian Slave owners? Why not have the Angel of Death kill all the Egyptians who were active Slave owners? Why not just kill the freaking Pharoh and every other Pharoh that took the throne afterwards until one of them released the Jews?Killing Children is WrongIf a guy in a bar pinched ur girlfriends ass would u feel justified to punch his child in the face?

Since you complain that I hadn't answered you I'll answer you now. How do you know my responses are "misinterpretations?" Perhaps you should have done some self-reflection yourself rather than this kneejerk reply to me, as I am just trying to educate whoever will listen. If you were following the discussion at all you should have recognized that the Irishman didn't seem to know about EARLY Irish history before the Roman Church came and conquered them. When I said that if he does, great, he didn't say one way or the other. My point was that there was a time when Ireland was a genuine evangelical Christian nation, which most people don't know. If you do, if he does, great, but then it can serve to make the contrast with Romanism if so, and a basis for demonstrating that there is nothing Christian about it.As for whom Catholics pray to I didn't identify anyone in particular but the Popes, the last three of which are on record that they pray to Mary and recommend prayer to Mary to Catholics in general, and none of them has said one way or the other that I know of that they pray to God. (You can google something like "Popes pray to Mary.") This is a matter of public record, why do you try to make it into something peculiar to me? How do you know I'm not an expert myself? I didn't make this stuff up, I've learned it from many sources. Also, it's unfortunately true that most Catholics don't know anything about church history or the papacy so it isn't hard to know more than they do about such things. I don't wonder at all, I just get tired of the ridiculous objections. Other than telling the truth as I know it?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Perhaps the clearest thing to say is that God can't do anything that isn't consistent with His own nature so He made a Creation that is consistent with His own nature, and the moral law is consistent with His nature. He can't be something other than He is, everything He does reflects it. God is unchanging, "the same yesterday today and forever." "I change not" He said.

I see. No I think you are stretching my allegory beyond its intention. It was intended only to show that love has no meaning if it is forced.The appropriate allegory regarding hell and free will would be something along the line of being in a burning building, the Fire Chief sending in his own son who uses his body to push back a falling flaming beam to make an escape route for you, dying in the process, and you saying no thanks I'm looking for my own way out. Do the corners exist independent of the square? Or are they part of the makeup of the square and what defines it?

The next step is:Good is therefore the absence of evil.
And wouldn't it therefore make sense for god to simply absent evil?Job done.

Well obviously the the bloke that kills three people unnecessarily is guilty of murder. His actions were grossly disproportionate.We use the term 'biblical' to describe an act of disproportionate violence for a reason.

Ur fire chief analogy only works if he set the building a blaze himself - if your god is all powerful why not abolish Hell entirely?The whole notion of the importance of belief has always eluded me, I'm a big comic geek and I tend to apply the same logic to the biblical story as I would to spiderman. So in the case of belief (and the subsequent punishment for not believing) I have to ask why is belief so bloody important!Is belief Gods food? Does he need it to exist?
Does he have a confidence issue and require constant praise to feel good about himself?
Maybe it's a mixture of the two - in the Avengers Arena comic Kid Britons powers are based on his confidence, maybe god needs us to believe in order to exist.Its a really odd concept when u try to detangle it. Of course if we suggest that the system of belief was set up by priests looking to control a populas then "believe or else" does make sense and has practical applicationsEdited by GrimSqueaker, : No reason given.

Nonsense. Your quote does NOT support your assertion. If you believe so then please explain how your quote supports your position?

Again, according to the Bible God does not know everything that has happened or what will happen.But if God and if God is the creator and if there is a Heaven and Hell and God judges who will go where, then that God is simply pure evil. There is no way around it, that God is pure evil and should be opposed, reviled, despised.

If you have the patience, this link An internet radio show by apologist Chris Rosebrough called Fighting For The Faith will explain a bit of the type of dogma that I ascribe to. Chris is critical of much of organized religion yet defends the Bible itself quite well.
His website can be found here.
In addition, I myself have made a defense of why Hell exists in my video, Inside and Outside...check it out
Inside & Outside- Broadcast your self LIVE

So ... he still wants people to be stoned to death for picking up sticks on Saturday? This is disquieting news.

Did the authorities start the flood, knowing that it would kill my children? Could the authorities have removed the children from the path of the flood with no more trouble than it takes me to scratch an itch? Did the authorities instead carefully arrange it so that I should survive while my children perished for my intransigence?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

OK, but what about their "free will"? I'm not talking about whether it was a good idea to have them eaten by bears, I'm just pointing out that if you believe in the Bible, then God does in fact intervene in human affairs, rather than withholding his hand out of concern for our "free will". Indeed, if, as you say, he killed these youths not as punishment for what they'd done, but in order to prevent them from doing what they were going to do, that strengthens rather than weakens my point.In one post you're implying that God shouldn't even "stop mass murders" (as indeed apparently he doesn't) because "love and free will go hand in hand [...] he must allow for us to make really bad choices as well as good ones"; in the next post you're telling me that God was quite right to have these people eaten by bears because it stopped them from making a "really bad choice" and doing something even worse than being cheeky to a bald guy. Would a little consistency be too much to ask?Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

By now you ought to be able to answer this yourself. God didn't change, the Law didn't change, but Jesus Christ came and paid our debt to the Law, THAT is what has changed. Not God, not the Law, but the circumstances we are in with respect to the Law.The Sabbath too, the day of rest on which no work is to be done, including picking up sticks, is fulfilled in Christ, in fact Christ Himself IS our Sabbath Rest. "Come unto Me and I will give you rest" He said. That's our Sabbath Rest, in Him. We may still honor one day in seven as a special day for worship and rest from our labors nevertheless, but it is no longer a commandment enforced by the death penalty for those who are in Him.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.