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Author Topic:   Belief in God is scientific.
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 160 of 262 (695590)
04-08-2013 6:00 AM


The best gift an atheist can give a believer is when they fall behind with the ever changing evolution of science. They start quoting yesterdays news as if its tomorrows.

  
divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 162 of 262 (695592)
04-08-2013 6:10 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Tangle
04-08-2013 6:03 AM


I agree

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 168 of 262 (695620)
04-08-2013 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Pressie
04-08-2013 7:08 AM


Not sure if you have read the rest of the posts in this topic but this has nothing to do with denomination, or belief in any one named deity. Its just the simple fact that 80 odd percent of the worlds population believe in some form of higher intelligence not of this universe that has God like qualities.
Name one other humanity wide argumentum ad populum that covers 80 odd percent of the human population today.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 171 of 262 (695630)
04-08-2013 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Pressie
04-08-2013 7:15 AM


You must be thick, i am merely quoting the things that the worlds top scientists are saying this very day, many of them from the group of thousands with qualifications you mentioned. I thought this forum would be full of people who actually know the current state of theoretical physics, but it just seems to be full of Walter mitty idiots.
I am not claiming to know anything just merely suggesting that its strange how with such an imbalance to the believe/not believe question its not taken seriously.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 175 of 262 (695643)
04-08-2013 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Pressie
04-08-2013 7:31 AM


Definition of Complex = composed of many interconnected parts.
If you understood physics and how everything in the universe is actually made and works you wouldn't even ask such a stupid question in regards of the complexity of the human brain.
Comparative measurement? The human brain and the body that supports it is made up of a mixture of subatomic particles. There are only 12 different types of these particles and they are controlled and manipulated by the four fundamental forces of nature, electromagnetism, the strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. These particles and forces work together to form absolutely everything that is in existence in the universe today, from the biggest black holes, and the most powerful gamma rays down to the puss in the zits on your forehead or the sperm in your ball sack.
All of this sub atomic cookery goes by the name of quantum mechanics.
Now all this physical matter occupies what is known as space time, and obeys the laws that Einstein discovered in his theory of relativity. Relativity describes how mass and energy are interchangeable and describes how things move and evolve through this exchange. Relativity is the wooden spoon that stirs all these atoms creating and governing everything from super massive black holes to the very fabric of the human mind and thought.
The human being is thought on scale to be about halfway in size between an atom and a star. Remember atoms are governed by quantum mechanics and stars are created and governed by relativity. Life is a convergence of both quantum mechanics and relativity and the human being with its cognitive thinking self aware brain is at the very pinnacle of that convergence.
If you don't think that that defines complex and describes how the human brain is the most complex thing in the known universe then you are probably not as clever as you thought and are probably living in a fantasy dream world like all your friends.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 180 of 262 (695661)
04-08-2013 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Dr Adequate
04-08-2013 12:58 PM


If the whole universe is made up of a combination of 12 fundamental particles that are governed by 4 fundamental forces, then the very fact that you and i are not only self aware but also aware of each other and are involved in a discussion about our very existence is to me a definite indication that our brains are more complex than our bodies.
As for becoming arrogant, i have been hounded and hounded throughout this topic about my use of various words and phrases by people who obviously don't understand them. The definition of complex i gave came from the dictionary. And even you must see that my description shows that the Brian from any perspective is an incredibly complex thing. Arrogance doesn't even come into it.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 181 of 262 (695662)
04-08-2013 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by AdminNosy
04-08-2013 12:46 PM


Re: Watch the language
I am not here to be arrogant or to claim any kind of theory or even hypotheses. I am merely pointing out that there is a statistic out there that seems distasteful to the scientific community even though it is a product of the human brain, the same brain which is responsible for the entire human knowledge.
As for real theoretical physicist's i am not in conflict with anyone
or even claiming any kind of skill or knowledge in just like any curious human looking for the truth.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 182 of 262 (695669)
04-08-2013 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ringo
04-08-2013 12:06 PM


quote:
restrict it to today? What about all of the concepts that used to be popular but now most people know better? Flat earth? Geocentrism?
yes you are right but those fallacies relate to the practice of the scientific method, not religious faith. Also not everyone believed the world was flat, aboriginal tribesmen from the deepest amazon didn't believe the world was flat they didn't even know of the existence of the idiots who said it was but they did believe in a deity. I can give you dozens of examples of isolated populations believing in a deity but only a few examples of European idiots believing the world was flat.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 190 of 262 (695742)
04-09-2013 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Tangle
04-08-2013 4:31 PM


quote:
can only mean that millions of people think that one day they'll win the lottery. So millions of people are wrong. Yet millions of people can't be wrong because they're the most complex things in the universe.
wow you don't have much real life experience do you? People do the lottery for the chance to win not because they expect to win.
Think about it, do you really think people enter the lottery because they think they are going to win, or are they really hoping that they are going to win? Reasons for entering in the lottery can range from seeking a gambling thrill to straight out desperation. I don't think you can class expecting to win the lottery as a popular fallacy millions of people don't do it expecting to win.
Edited by Admin, : Fix Quote. DiverMike, please preview your posts. Your incorrect use of quotes will be highlighted in red. You close a quote with [/quote], not with another [quote].

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 191 of 262 (695744)
04-09-2013 4:18 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Dr Adequate
04-08-2013 6:42 PM


There are 12 fundamental particles that make make up all the matter in the universe 6 leptons and 6 quarks. Instead of me naming the ones you are talking about why don't you name them and show where they are located within all the matter in the universe?
please remember the definition of fundamental and also that they have to present in the actual matter in the universe as it stands and not to have once existed as part of a process i.e. That they have not been victim to particle annihilation.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 193 of 262 (695748)
04-09-2013 5:35 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by Tangle
04-09-2013 5:24 AM


quote:
They don't expect to win, they're not total morons - but they think that they can win. They can't, it is a popular fallacy.
mate the post i replied to said its a popular fallacy because they do expect to win that is what the poster said.
please read what you just wrote its not a popular fallacy to think they can win of course they can win, id go as far as to say that's its a popular fact that you can win the lottery. The would be morons if every week they bought a ticket believing out right they are going to win.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 206 of 262 (695835)
04-09-2013 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Dr Adequate
04-09-2013 1:06 PM


Nearly mate but a photon has no mass therefore it isn't present in any of the matter within the universe.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 211 of 262 (695891)
04-10-2013 4:00 AM


No need for scripture.
Right there are a few people posting scripture quotes. While i am a believer and one of the Christian variety, this topic has nothing to do with scripture or denomination its about the pure fact that no matter where in the world you go with regards humanity, the vast majority believe in some form of deity. From the most isolated micro societies to the colossal modern civilization we posters are from, God is in our brains (lives). Coupling this with the modern understanding of the physiological complexity of the human brain within the evolution of the universe how can belief not be classed as a scientific quantity?

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 222 of 262 (695925)
04-10-2013 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Straggler
04-10-2013 8:05 AM


Re: No need for invisible men..
Yes i consider psychology. You could argue that being a creature with hierarchy built into its societies the human may just keep looking up the chain. And after becoming king of all the animals and most environments it just looks to where it can see a higher king (God) and higher environment (Heaven) and that place is inside its imagination.
But you could also say that with modern understanding of how unbelievably amazing the universe is and how unfathomable a place it really is that modern skeptics are also victims of their own imaginations in thinking that they understand enough of existence and the universe to say with such certainty that there isn't a God. When in reality the true value of how much we actually know is probably more or less nothing compared with what there is to know.

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divermike1974
Member (Idle past 4003 days)
Posts: 59
Joined: 02-08-2013


Message 227 of 262 (695938)
04-10-2013 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Stile
04-10-2013 12:11 PM


belief
quote:
The result, on every scientific test, is that "belief" is a very unreliable way to use your brain in order to learn facts about the world.
Humanity would have failed long ago it it didn't believe 'it could do it'
Belief is integral to human success. Once we believed we could sail round the world and we did, once we believed we could land on the moon and we did, at the moment we believe we can land man on Mars and we probably will.
Imagining we can do somthing makes us plan to do it, we envision the obstacles to over come and the requirements needed to do it. Believing we can do it motivates us to overcome those obstacles and to procure the requirements and skills to do it.
This very day there are probably hundreds of science students studying for degrees who will spend their whole careers imagining, believing and planning to send man to Mars.
the statement at the top only makes sense if it is the propaganda of an idiot.
Edited by divermike1974, : No reason given.

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