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Author | Topic: Radical Clerics, Christian Morals, and Homosexuality | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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OK,, I give up, I'm the persecutor, I'm the evil one, nothing I say has any value, I get it. Christianity is the enemy of the world, not Catholicism, not gay marriage, none of that, no, just Christianity. I get it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: You think that I consider you to be a good Christian ? You think that I consider the Catholic Church to be blameless, just because I object to vicious and baseless attacks on it ? There's a lot wrong with Catholicism but it's nowhere near as bad as you say. You don't get it at all.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Right, like I said, I'm the persecutor, I'm not even a Christian, Catholicism is just what they present themselves to be, not plotting to acquire world power, that's just my vicious and baseless attacks, I've proven nothing of what I've said about that, you are SO right, objections to gay marriage are nothing but evil bigotry, trying to deprive a legitimate minority group of their rights, etc etc etc. You are all SO right.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2315 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined:
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Faith writes:
Would you mind telling me how the Dutch society got destroyed after allowing same sex marrage in april of 2001? The destruction seems to be so far unnoticed.
Or to prevent the enactment of gay marriage which would destroy the society.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 369 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
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You have to be patient. God is waiting for the magnitude of sodomy to reach the smiting threshold. I figure you guys have about another 390 yrs before the hammer falls but keep on eye on them dykes.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: OK,, I give up, I'm the persecutor, I'm the evil one, nothing I say has any value, I get it. Christianity is the enemy of the world, not Catholicism, not gay marriage, none of that, no, just Christianity. I get it. No, you don't get it. It's not Christianity that is the enemy of the world, just the version of Christianity you try to sell. I doubt anyone here thinks you are evil, but the ideas you try to market are certainly vile, not Christ like, bigoted, exclusionary, pretty much worthless.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I believe that there is essentially a spectrum
on the far left you have license and freedom...all things are permissible...we are free in Christ to live our lives as we feel. On the far right is legalism. Thou shalt do this and not do that. There are numerous rules. I am somewhere in the middle. I can understand what you wish to convey when you say I should worry about no mans sin other than my own. That My behavior is between me and God. And I agree that society...and the church...have no c all to legislate morality. Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world and mine isnt either. I am commanded to love my neighbor. Love God and love others. Perfect love casts out all fear. So what does it mean to love? Does perfect love include boundless tolerance? If my teenager is in church and is making out with his girlfriend in the back pew, am i to giggle and turn the other way? Am I to go and rebuke them? Am I to ignore what to me is a fleshly act which would embarrass us all in the Lords presence? My point is this: What should and should not be allowed in church? Should we have our headphones on bumping rap while the BCP is being read?
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So what does it mean to love? Does perfect love include boundless tolerance? That depends. Should it include boundless tolerance of other folks sins? Yup. None of your business.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Dr Adequate writes:
The problem is that we have a lot of laws with the word "marriage" in them. Changing the name of government-sanctioned contracts to "union" would require rewording a lot of laws. The government should recognize legal contracts --- which they can, to save the feelings of the butthurt, call something else, such as "union". Which is why I suggest that only the government-sanctioned marriages should be recognized as legal marriages. If churches want to call something "marriage", that's fine but it should have no legal standing whatsoever.
Dr Adequate writes:
The solution to that problem, in my opinion, is for the government to handle the legal and for religion to handle the religious. No religious ceremony needs to be illegal if it carries no legal weight in the first place.
The problem here is that the government is being asked to decide that some religious ceremonies are legal and some are not.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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So what does it mean to love? Does perfect love include boundless tolerance? If my teenager is in church and is making out with his girlfriend in the back pew, am i to giggle and turn the other way? What does tolerance mean, and what behavior is intolerance? You are the teenager's parent and are responsible for the teen. So for you, ignoring the making out is some kind of endorsement. Further, the behavior in church is church business, so if the usher interferes, he is not showing intolerance either. But failing to persecute random people that aren't in your house or who aren't your kids is not any kind of endorsement or tolerance of their behavior. Not yelling 'God hates gays' isn't tolerance of gays, it's simply behaving as if you had been brought up somewhere other than a cave. You might even argue that such non-actions are required by Jesus example from John 8:7. (Unless you are using the conservapedia Bible.)Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Right, like I said, I'm the persecutor, I'm not even a Christian, Catholicism is just what they present themselves to be, not plotting to acquire world power, that's just my vicious and baseless attacks, I've proven nothing of what I've said about that, you are SO right, objections to gay marriage are nothing but evil bigotry, trying to deprive a legitimate minority group of their rights, etc etc etc. You are all SO right. Wow. That is the most true statements I've ever seen you put into one post.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.1
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It's like Poe's Law...but in reverse!
The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I'd like to make something clear. I usually take a wide definition of Christian including pretty much anyone who's prepared to assent to the basic doctrines. That's why I said that I don't consider Faith a good Christian. Which of course she ignored.
But if we're going to talk about what makes a good Christian then adherence to doctrine is surely not the most important issue - and I'd be surprised if there were more than a few items of doctrine that had to be believed. In Christianity you don't get saved by saying that you believe in Sola Scriptura - or even really believing it. Adherence to the teachings of the Gospels - such as "Judge not, lest ye be judged" would surely seem to be more important than that or even the Trinity or the Virgin Birth.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2971 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined:
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Sexual behavior is a choice. This is nonsense. Outright homophobic retoric that you're trying to pass on as a fact. I thought you were better than that.
The problem that you guys seem to be having is in confusing attraction and sexuality. How do you separate the two? I am attracted to women and have a biological need for sex. How is this statement wrong?
In most cases it cannot. In all cases it can not because there is nothing wrong that needs curing. - Oni
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4039 Joined: Member Rating: 8.1
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Sexual behavior, on the other hand, is fair game. There is no sexual behavior that can be participated in exclusively by consenting adults which is morally wrong. Period. Anal sex is not immoral. Blowjobs are not immoral. Cunnilingus is not immoral. Analingus is not immoral. BDSM is not immoral. Male/male sex is not immoral. Female/female sex is not immoral. Male/female/male/male/male/male/female sex is not immoral. And so on, and so forth. Consenting adults can do absolutely whatever they want with each other, even if you find their acts distasteful and would not personally want to participate or indeed even think about such acts, distasteful is not and never has been a corollary to immoral. That's what you don't get, Phat. There are many people who are labelled as "sexual deviants" for doing what is absolutely nobody else's business but their own and that of any partners who participate with them. Many of them have suffered persecution through legal and other means since time immemorial. Many of them still do. Simply based on what they choose to do with other consenting adults, because their neighbors just can't stand that somebody might have an erection over something that makes them feel squicky. The extension of your personal tastes (which includes that of a religion as much as it does any individual person) into the business of others through moral condemnation is itself immoral. The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995.
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