Summations Only

IMHO it is never about religion. It is always about greed and power regardless of what the presenting issue is.

It may be done in the name of religion but then it goes back to your point about it being tribal. Religion in some ways is just another tribe and then it is about gaining power for the tribe and about an individual's position within that tribe.Even when you read back through the OT there are numerous stories involving their efforts to get Yahweh on their side in battles to gain power for the Jewish tribe.No matter what terrible things are done in the name of religion, and again I agree that religion is one of the things that divides us into various tribes, it still boils down to power and greed.As humans we are very tribal. I worked for a company that merged with another company where in many cases the two groups wouldn't even talk to each other. Our nationalities divide us, the colour of our skin divides us, our languages divide us and the list goes on.I still maintain that it is always fundamentally about power and greed with a large dash of pride thrown in.

Some one on this forum a while back said that essentially the Christian message was that we are all one tribe. I think that is exactly right. By that I don't mean that we are all Christian but that we are all one tribe as humans, and that we should regard each other that way whether we are Christian, Muslim, atheist or anything else.

If I remember correctly it wasn't one of the Christians on the forum.

That's a very good post but I'm still not convinced. Here is a statement that you made in your previous post. Witches are going to be viewed as "other" whether it by Christians or not. It seems to me that our tribal influences change depending on circumstances. It seems to me that the mob mentality for example is part of our tribal nature.In Canada we take our hockey seriously. We have actually had riots after hockey games. The people who took part in the riots just became part of a tribal mob. Using your example we could say that hockey is responsible for the riots.It seems to me that the treatment of witches was the result of a mob mentality that had the beliefs of some Christians as a basis for what happened. I suggest however the witches were "other" they would have formed a tribe on some other basis.A mob in my opinion is about power. In the case of the hockey riots it would be the power over authority. In the case of the witches it gave them power over something that they didn't understand and power over the fear that was a result of the not being able to understand.

Yes being a witch is a religious identifier but it also makes them an "other", regardless of the religion or lack of religion of the tribal mob involved in the abuse.

In the example I used I talked about hockey as being the excuse for the hockey riots. It seems to me that religion might be the excuse for some atrocities that give people a sense of power over their fears and over others. However, IMHO, if it wasn't religion the atrocities would still happen but with some other excuse.Does that answer your question? I guess I'm closest to "it can but it isn't".

I'm probably talking semantics here but it seems to me that religion is about a set of beliefs. Our actions are something that come from our hearts and minds be they good or bad. People of all beliefs are capable of behaving unselfishly and mercifully or behaving selfishly and cruelly. I guess it is a question of how much those beliefs affect our behaviour. IMHO it is how we respond to our conscience, and as it pertains to this discussion, how capable we are of overcoming our tribal instincts.However there have been terrible things done in the name of religion including the Christian religion. I guess it is my opinion that there would be no reduction in the atrocities that occur if all religions ceased to exist, we would just have some other tribal allegiances.

Religion is a set of beliefs. It is people that commit atrocities. Within my own set of "irrational beliefs" called Christianity there is considerable variance in belief. My Christianity looks quite different from that of Faith and I doubt that there are any two Christians who will agree on anything. People of religious groups have used religion as an excuse to commit crimes against humanity.

I imagine like as in all mobs there is a mixture of motivations. I'm sure some many people thought them to be evil but I'm also sure that those who thought they were evil thought that many other people were evil as well and yet they weren't burning them at the stake.Those that thought that way would no doubt believe that adulterers were evil as well. The point is though that they didn't fear adulterers but had a fear of witches. Witches were very different and they wouldn't have understood them. In reaction to their fear they cruelly executed them which gave them power over that which they feared.However just as people would form mobs and execute slaves there will always be those who feel selfishly empowered by surviving while watching others put to death. Look at what use to happen in the Roman Empire.