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Author Topic:   Federal Court & U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheism is Religion
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(5)
Message 4 of 61 (697683)
04-28-2013 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Alter2Ego
04-28-2013 10:20 PM


Atheism is a religion according to a 2005 Wisconsin Federal Court ruling on the matter of Kaufman v. McCaughtry, as well as the Torcaso v. Watkins case that was affirmed by the 1961 U.S. Supreme Court--the highest court in the land--where court rulings become national law
Not exactly. Kaufman v. McCaughtry held that atheism was 'equivalent' to a religion, for the purposes of the First Amendment.
quote:
As such, we are satisfied that it qualifies as Kaufman's religion for purposes of the First Amendment claims he is attempting to raise.
If you want to make more of the holding than that, then you aren't following the holdings of the courts. You are off on a personal quest that none of us need care about.
As for Torcaso v. Watkins, there is a footnote that lists Secular Humanism as a religion, however the holding says the following (emphasis mine):
quote:
We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a State nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person "to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion." Neither can constitutionally pass laws or impose requirements which aid all religions as against non-believers, and neither can aid those religions based on a belief in the existence of God as against those religions founded on different beliefs.
In short regardless of whether atheism is a belief or a non belief, the holding still applies. The words 'atheist' and 'atheism' never appear in the Torcaso opinion.
So is atheism a religion? Only in the same sense that not going to soccer matches is an activity.
according to them, non-belief in God is proof positive that they are not religious.
That argument would be stupid. I have never encountered an atheist on this site making such an argument.
I intend this to be my last post on this topic, so perhaps there is no need to respond to this post. I do find your ridiculous Hitler/Stalin comparison quite beyond the pale. You would do well not to continue to use it.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Alter2Ego, posted 04-28-2013 10:20 PM Alter2Ego has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 61 (697733)
04-29-2013 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Pressie
04-29-2013 1:03 AM


Re: Not so
The bottom of the story is that Alter2Ego did not tell the truth about the findings in those court cases.
I wonder why Alter2Ego did this?
Alter2Ego's post is sufficiently within sniffing distance of the truth to allow asking some of those pointed YES/NO 'have you stopped beating your wife yet' type questions. Isn't that the type of 'reasoning' we've come to expect?
Yes, footnote 11 that Alter2Ego refers to is present in the opinion, but the footnote is not the opinion of the court, nor is it part of the reasoning behind the court's opinion. It is the opinion of the one Justice selected to write the opinion, which does not make the footnote the law of the law. As Coyote said, it is dicta only.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Pressie, posted 04-29-2013 1:03 AM Pressie has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 41 of 61 (698171)
05-03-2013 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by GDR
05-02-2013 4:03 PM


People of religious groups have used religion as an excuse to commit crimes against humanity.
You don't believe, for example, that people in Massachusetts burned witches because they actually believed that witches were evil?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by GDR, posted 05-02-2013 4:03 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by GDR, posted 05-03-2013 2:37 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 05-03-2013 2:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 45 of 61 (698196)
05-03-2013 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
05-03-2013 2:46 PM


Catholics again?
There was a grand total of 19 "witches" killed in the hysteria in Massachusetts, as compared with hundreds upon hundreds killed in Europe through the Middle Ages by the Catholic Church.
Nineteen hanged, another squeezed to death, 5 more died in prison. Maybe 50 others put into prison in 1692. None burned. And that isn't all of the executions for witchcraft in MA, just the ones in 1692. I appreciate the correction on the manner of death. But for the rest, whose point are you trying to make here? My point is only that the execution of witches was not an attempt for a church to grab political power or wealth. Do you disagree with that?
Is there an argument that the various executions for witchcraft that occurred in the 17th century in New England were not religiously motivated? Does calling them mass hysteria change the answer?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 05-03-2013 2:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 61 (698271)
05-05-2013 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Theodoric
05-04-2013 11:16 PM


Re: Where is Alter2Ego
His OP is nothing but misrepresentation of reality at best and probably lies in reality.
From OP of Precision in Nature: Evidence of God or Accidents?
Scientific evidence shows there is extreme precision in everything around us in the natural world. This precision renders the evolution theory and Big Bang theory mere fiction, because both theories rely on accidents or spontaneous events. Precision leaves no room for error or for accidental events. Rather, precision requires deliberation.
From OP of PROOF: Judeo-Christian Bible Inspired of God
Circles can be 2D (flat) or 3D (an ORB or a SPHERE)
How did Moses know that the earth hangs upon nothing, indicating gravity, considering that the book of Job was completed in 1473 B.C.E. and it wasn't until 1687 AD/CE that Isaac Newton published his theory about gravitational forces--3,160 years AFTER Moses wrote that the earth hangs upon nothing?
And of course this thread.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Theodoric, posted 05-04-2013 11:16 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 61 (698349)
05-05-2013 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by GDR
05-03-2013 2:37 PM


Bad idea.
Edited by NoNukes, : Avoid a goring...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by GDR, posted 05-03-2013 2:37 PM GDR has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 61 (698350)
05-05-2013 9:44 PM


Summary
Insert boring homily about squeezing turnips and expecting something different this one time.
We didn't even get vegetable juice.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

  
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