Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Endtime Prophecy and the European Union
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 208 of 313 (700691)
06-06-2013 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Dr Adequate
06-06-2013 12:56 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
God had commanded them to disperse and populate the earth. Instead of dispersing they gathered together to build their own method of reaching God.
Gen 11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
God had to force them to disperse by confounding their languages. Then they scattered as He had commanded them, against their will. There is more to it than this but this is the main point. You have to read in context. And it helps to consult commentaries to correct your misreadings.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 12:56 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 1:15 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 211 of 313 (700699)
06-06-2013 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Dr Adequate
06-06-2013 1:15 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
He told Noah to multiply and replenish the earth. That's Genesis 9:1. The command was certainly conveyed to Noah's progeny.
Sola Scriptura does NOT mean we all trust only our own reading of the Bible over any differing views of the preachers and teachers God gave the Church. Sola Scriptura means the Bible is the sole authority, not that it doesn't need interpretation. The difference from the RCC is that they put their traditions which CONTRADICT the Bible on an equal footing with the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-06-2013 1:15 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by ringo, posted 06-07-2013 12:40 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 216 of 313 (700748)
06-06-2013 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by NoNukes
06-06-2013 6:18 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
Here's Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Tower of Babel from Blue Letter Bible. Number 3 is the main interpretation of most other commentators. Henry quotes Josephus, the Jewish historian in that paragraph.
(1.) It seems designed for an affront to God himself; for they would build a tower whose top might reach to heaven, which bespeaks a defiance of God, or at least a rivalship with him. They would be like the Most High, or would come as near him as they could, not in holiness but in height. They forgot their place, and, scorning to creep on the earth, resolved to climb to heaven, not by the door or ladder, but some other way.
(2.) They hoped hereby to make themselves a name; they would do something to be talked of now, and to give posterity to know that there had been such men as they in the world. Rather than die and leave no memorandum behind them, they would leave this monument of their pride, and ambition, and folly. Note, [1.] Affectation of honour and a name among men commonly inspires with a strange ardour for great and difficult undertakings, and often betrays to that which is evil and offensive to God. [2.] It is just with God to bury those names in the dust which are raised by sin. These Babel-builders put themselves to a great deal of foolish expense to make themselves a name; but they could not gain even this point, for we do not find in any history the name of so much as one of these Babel-builders. Philo Judaeus says, They engraved every one his name upon a brick, in perpetuam rei memoriamas a perpetual memorial; yet neither did this serve their purpose.
(3.) They did it to prevent their dispersion: Lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the earth. "It was done’’ (says Josephus) "in disobedience to that command (ch. 9:1), Replenish the earth.’’ God orders them to disperse. "No,’’ say they, "we will not, we will live and die together.’’ In order hereunto, they engage themselves and one another in this vast undertaking. That they might unite in one glorious empire, they resolve to build this city and tower, to be the metropolis of their kingdom and the centre of their unity. It is probable that the band of ambitious Nimrod was in all this. He could not content himself with the command of a particular colony, but aimed at universal monarchy, in order to which, under pretence of uniting for their common safety, he contrives to keep them in one body, that, having them all under his eye, he might not fail to have them under his power. See the daring presumption of these sinners. Here is, [1.] A bold opposition to God: "You shall be scattered,’’ says God. "But we will not,’’ say they. Woe unto him that thus strives with his maker. [2.] A bold competition with God. It is God’s prerogative to be universal monarch, Lord of all, and King of kings; the man that aims at it offers to step into the throne of God, who will not give his glory to another.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by NoNukes, posted 06-06-2013 6:18 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2013 9:51 PM Faith has replied
 Message 223 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2013 12:23 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 218 of 313 (700756)
06-06-2013 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Theodoric
06-06-2013 9:51 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
He's trusted as a historian by many.
And you pick THAT out of three big paragraphs to complain about?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Theodoric, posted 06-06-2013 9:51 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Theodoric, posted 06-07-2013 9:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 219 of 313 (700757)
06-06-2013 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by New Cat's Eye
06-06-2013 5:13 PM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
You can't even get the most basic and obvious facts about our world correct, so there's no doubt whatever it is you're beginning to "know" is just a bunch of retarded nonsensical lies.
I reject evolution which has nothing to do with getting facts straight, it has to do with REJECTING EVOLUTION, and you make that an excuse to discredit everything else I say. Such integrity.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-06-2013 5:13 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-07-2013 12:07 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 221 of 313 (700759)
06-06-2013 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Panda
06-05-2013 5:40 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
The integrity here, the graciousness, the charity, the patience to read through everything a person has written, is just SO heartening.
The facts you gave that you think remove your opinion from the realm of opinion are facts I was already aware of and mentioned myself when giving my own opinion. Funny you overlooked that.
I already said I find a special emphasis on the ten in the Wikipedia article on the Council of Europe for three reasons: because they mention the original ten, because they even give a map showing the original ten, and also because it seems likely to me that the Armenian commemorative coin probably reflects the original ten as well (I NEVER said this as if I believe it to be fact, it was always speculation, but you don't seem to care about representing me honestly). You COULD be right about the coin but you could be wrong, you don't know anything about it, your opinion against mine but you treat yours as fact of course.
If you do a 'Faith' and make up things like "The 10 fans on a coin represent the 10 EU founding members!" or "The statue looks like a woman with a cup riding a 10 headed beast!"", then sure -
Again you are misrepresenting what I said about the coin, which was purely speculative, and you are also misrepresenting what I said about the statue of Europa, since all I said and all anybody I've quoted has said is that it's an image of "a woman riding a beast," nothing else. You added the cup and the ten heads. Such integrity.
The flag with the twelve stars was originally designed for the Council of Europe. It is shared by the European Union. They also share the anthem. The other symbols mentioned all belong to the EU -- the building that resembles the Tower of Babel, the statue of Europa riding the bull and so on, so if you object to including the Council of Europe you nevertheless have no honest reason to object to my reading of the symbolism in relation to the EU.
So - your evidence that the EU is involved in the End Of Days is that it shares a flag with the Council of Europe.
I'd suggest here that perhaps you have difficulty with reading, but it's more likely a problem of dishonesty.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Panda, posted 06-05-2013 5:40 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 5:23 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 224 of 313 (700763)
06-07-2013 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by NoNukes
06-07-2013 12:23 AM


Re: Tower of Babel
Yes I should have acknowledged that I suppose. It's the mean attitude in his opinion that takes over unfortunately.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by NoNukes, posted 06-07-2013 12:23 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 225 of 313 (700764)
06-07-2013 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by New Cat's Eye
06-07-2013 12:07 AM


Re: Reformers on Popes as Antichrist
Sorry, I am not spreading lies, though you'd like to think so. I've been very careful to differentiate between the average Catholic's understanding and the institution. You need to look into these things yourself.
You are obviously a Catholic in name only anyway, so you are merely arguing from a superficial loyalty. You've revealed enough of your life to show that you aren't obeying God and obviously don't care to. You aren't saved and apparently aren't interested. But if you were, if you were a really serious Catholic, as I know many are, you'd need to be warned that following the RCC rules will not save you.
But making such an issue of my views on evolution is pretty low stuff in the service of your need to discredit me because of my other opinions. I still agree with what I said back there too.
AND AGAIN: How come people here can say the ugliest and yes lyingest things against MY beliefs, against "fundamentalists" and against Bible believers, including that we support "genocide" among other things, and we're supposed to take it -- and we also represent a lot of people -- but if someone points out the known historical evils in Catholicism you treat it as a completely different sort of offense, an intolerable offense. How come?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-07-2013 12:07 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 227 of 313 (700771)
06-07-2013 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Panda
06-07-2013 5:23 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
So the fact that we recognize the statue as the woman who rides the beast means to you that we see ten heads and a cup and all that. Funny, to me it just means a statue of a woman riding a beast which just because it is a woman riding a beast reminds us of the one in Revelation. But of course it MUST be what YOU think it is, not what WE think it is.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 5:23 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 7:47 AM Faith has replied
 Message 230 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2013 7:53 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 229 of 313 (700775)
06-07-2013 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Panda
06-07-2013 7:47 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
What I SAID and what you think I meant are two different things and you are merely insisting on YOUR idea of what I said and haven't the basic integrity to admit the difference.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 7:47 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 8:32 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 231 of 313 (700777)
06-07-2013 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by PaulK
06-07-2013 7:53 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Look, I never said and none of the people I referenced said that the statue was a replica of the creature in Revelation, it's a simple equation of a woman on a beast with that idea. The statue could be a woman riding a lion, a woman riding a dragon, a woman riding a bear, the same idea would occur to us if not to you. You can insist all you want that it SHOULD be something else but that's again just you insisting it should be something else when it's merely what I said it is. And really, that should have been obvious from the first, simple and obvious. You wouldn't make that connection but we do whether you like it or not.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2013 7:53 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2013 8:04 AM Faith has replied
 Message 242 by Tangle, posted 06-07-2013 1:28 PM Faith has replied
 Message 263 by caffeine, posted 06-13-2013 8:23 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 233 of 313 (700780)
06-07-2013 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by PaulK
06-07-2013 8:04 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
I can concede that my wording could have been better but that doesn't give you license to insist I meant something I didn't mean. Obviously the statue immediately reminds a bunch of us of the image in Revelation and you are just getting all nitpicky about my use of the word "recognize." Is "reminds" better or do you want to pick that to death as well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2013 8:04 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by PaulK, posted 06-07-2013 8:16 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 313 (700788)
06-07-2013 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Panda
06-07-2013 8:32 AM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Still no honesty from you. How simple it would be to merely concede that I meant what I meant and not what you think I should have meant, but I guess that's just too hard for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 8:32 AM Panda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by Panda, posted 06-07-2013 9:50 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 244 of 313 (700846)
06-08-2013 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Tangle
06-07-2013 1:28 PM


Re: Symbolism of the European Union
Not a horse, it would have to be a wild or dangerous beast.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Tangle, posted 06-07-2013 1:28 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 245 of 313 (700847)
06-08-2013 3:01 AM
Reply to: Message 241 by ringo
06-07-2013 12:40 PM


Re: Tower of Babel
The Tower of Babel seems to have represented pagan religion and what the scripture calls "will worship," that is self-invented worship, as well as the desire to climb up to God's seat rather than taking a humble role. It is certainly not the same as Christian worship.
Never congregate together? The amazing things that get made up to contradict God. Dispersing throughout the earth would have been done in tribes after all, not as individuals. Good grief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by ringo, posted 06-07-2013 12:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by PaulK, posted 06-08-2013 4:44 AM Faith has replied
 Message 255 by ringo, posted 06-09-2013 3:50 PM Faith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024