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Rights of Nature?

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Author Topic:   Rights of Nature?
onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 126 of 147 (702921)
07-12-2013 5:34 PM 		Reply to: Message 125 by New Cat's Eye
07-12-2013 10:47 AM

Re: Non-Human Rights
Which is?
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Which is what? Are you asking me what the difference between something being inherent to living beings and innate to living beings is?
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- Oni
This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-12-2013 10:47 AM New Cat's Eye has replied
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 127 of 147 (702922)
07-12-2013 5:35 PM 		Reply to: Message 124 by 1.61803
07-12-2013 10:43 AM

Re: Non-Human Rights
Physics is a bitch, and she's always in heat.
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She is. Which is why there is an inherent danger in standing on the side of a cliff.
​
- Oni
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 129 of 147 (702924)
07-12-2013 5:48 PM 		Reply to: Message 108 by ringo
07-11-2013 1:51 PM

Re: Non-Human Rights
If people "deserve" certain rights but they aren't granted untill a century later, that suggests that the convenience of the granters had higher priority than the "need" of the grantees
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In the case of things like the right to drink from a water fountain or ride in the front of a bus, sure. But neither of those is inherent to living things.
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Nobody deserves rights, especially not freedom. It is already an inherent quality of living things to be free. What can happen is someone infringes on those rights, with laws and sticks and hoses.
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It makes no sense to say "You're not free because we haven't given you that right." That is not a right someone can give you. You are a free being, who may have been born in a time and place where there were laws and governing bodies that infringed on those rights.
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You can't speak up until you have the right to speak up.
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That's ridiculous. Anyone can speak up whenever they please. Freewill isn't something that is given.
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First, some white people decided that black people "should" have rights - but nothing was actually done about it until it became convenient for a significant number of white people.
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Black people had all the rights to live freely that every living thing has. Unfortunately, some were born in a time and place where the powers that be infringed on those rights.
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- Oni
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 130 of 147 (702926)
07-12-2013 5:59 PM 		Reply to: Message 128 by New Cat's Eye
07-12-2013 5:43 PM

Re: Non-Human Rights
Yes. Exactly that.
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I should have asked that differently. Because you're confusing me with these jar-like posts.
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Are you asking me what the difference is between something being innate to living beings or inherent to being alive?
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If you're saying yes to that, then...
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Something innate is found in the living organism. Something inherent to being alive is found whenever there is life.
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Again with the example of the cliff. Danger isn't innate in cliffs, when they just sit there being cliffs. But there is an inherent danger in standing on the side of a cliff.
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As an example, living freely is an inherent right to being alive. But freedom is not innate to living things.
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- Oni
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Edited by onifre, : No reason given.
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 136 of 147 (703463)
07-22-2013 4:33 PM 		Reply to: Message 135 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
07-22-2013 10:20 AM

Re: Agreement
It is blantantly obvious to anyone who pays attention that tool use is something that many animals use and is not a uniquely human trait.
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Sure, but can it really be said that they make tools? Most examples would simply be using something as a tool, but not crafting something to use as a tool.
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Can you give an example of animals making or crafting a tool?
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- Oni
This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 07-22-2013 10:20 AM Tempe 12ft Chicken has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2013 4:48 PM onifre has replied
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onifre
Member (Idle past 2977 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008

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Message 139 of 147 (703466)
07-22-2013 5:38 PM 		Reply to: Message 137 by Rahvin
07-22-2013 4:48 PM

Re: Agreement
After all...out of all the tools you've used in your life, how many of them have you, personally, made?
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A few actually.
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Using a stick to poke an ant hill, or a rock to crack open a shell is an example of animals using tools.
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I see no example of animals making tools.
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We started using rocks, fine, we didn't make that. But then someone tied that rock to a stick to make an actual tool. Is there an example like this with other animals?
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- Oni
This message is a reply to:
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