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Author Topic:   Rights of Nature?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 147 (703468)
07-22-2013 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by onifre
07-22-2013 5:38 PM


Re: Agreement
Using a stick to poke an ant hill, or a rock to crack open a shell is an example of animals using tools.
I see no example of animals making tools.
I think I found you one:
quote:
Elephants have been observed digging holes to drink water and then ripping bark from a tree, chewing it into the shape of a ball, filling in the hole and covering it with sand to avoid evaporation. They would later go back to the spot for a drink.

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 Message 139 by onifre, posted 07-22-2013 5:38 PM onifre has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 142 of 147 (703469)
07-22-2013 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Rahvin
07-22-2013 6:13 PM


Re: Agreement
But still, even if you want an example from your arbitrarily harsh specifications, a beaver does make his dam. If that's not the fashioning of a tool, I don't know what is.
I see a difference between an animal's instinct driving them to a behavior that happens to result in a tool being made, and sitting back and thinking about a problem and then designing a tool to fix it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2013 6:13 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Rahvin, posted 07-22-2013 6:46 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 147 (703477)
07-22-2013 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Rahvin
07-22-2013 6:46 PM


Re: Agreement
I do, too. That's why, while I see a beehive or a spiderweb as examples of tool manufacture, I don't consider those organisms to be particularly generally intelligent.
Okay; So I think Oni is using "making tools" to be talking more about your general intelligence than your "examples of tool manufacture". I don't think "intelligence" is the right word, though. More like: Cognition?
However, general abstract intelligence of the type needed to analyze a problem and creatively design a solution in an adaptive manner is not unique to humans
I don't think that point is under contention.
What we're looking at, basically, is the difference between intelligence and general intelligence.
So like?: that which is innate (instinct) vs. that which is analyzation (Cognition)?
I have more to address, but not the time. Simple (short) answers to my questions will help me more when I get back.
Other animals are generally intelligent also. There are simply more limiting factors in the specific criteria of "tool fabrication" than "intelligence."
Yes. This. But don't let simple descriptions lead you to simple conceptions. GTG.

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