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Author | Topic: Are Atheists Mentally Ill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Blue collar workers are very religious as well. I don't think you have your story straight. Well yes, many days I hear God's name mentioned several times. With the word "damn" behind it.
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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marc9000 writes: quote: The last one especially, earlier in this thread we saw the claim that atheists are less likely to get divorced. Both can't be right. You're making the same mistake I described in my Message 33 (which I think you missed in the flurry of messages earlier today) - you don't understand the statistics. I mentioned at one point that atheists are underrepresented in many negative categories, including divorce. It wasn't a comparison between atheists and religious people. And all your statistic says is that religious practice (usually defined as church attendance) is associated with lower divorce rates. It's a comparison of religious people who attend church with religious people who don't attend church. It, too, isn't a comparison to atheists. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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marc9000 writes: Blue collar workers are very religious as well. I don't think you have your story straight.
Well yes, many days I hear God's name mentioned several times. With the word "damn" behind it. Sometimes it's like you're not even connected to reality. Are you under some illusion that the religious don't curse? The connection between high religiosity and the lower socio-economic classes, the most coarse strata of society, was well known long before surveys and polls verified it statistically. Karl Marx probably described it most famously when he called religion "the opiate of the masses." --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Here's an interesting graph, Marc. It shows that the more conservative the religion, the less the education and the lower the income:
Source: Is Your Religion Your Financial Destiny? --Percy
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2503 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined:
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marc9000 writes:
quote: The last one especially, earlier in this thread we saw the claim that atheists are less likely to get divorced. Both can't be right. They could be. Especially if the churchgoing religious are being compared largely to non-churchgoing religious, and the atheists have low divorce rates partially because they're less likely to get married in the first place! Funnily enough, if you look into it, I think you'll find that the New England states that were high on life expectancy and low on religiosity also have relatively low rates of divorce.
Here's an article to contrast with the Telegraph one in the O.P.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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The bolded part is what applies to this thread. Since I used my skepticism to further explore the claim that was made, I found that it made a lot of sense in this case. How can you balance things by reciting complete nonsense? What you are suggesting is that you feel justified in being a complete fraud simply because you want to oppose something you don't want to hear. And those don't appear to be the words that I criticized. You posted complete and utter nonsense while claiming to know better. You have no idea what the religious backgrounds of the people in the ghettos happen to be. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Jon writes: Where does the article claim that happiness in the belief in a deity is evidence for that deity's existence? I don't think it does. I have a bit of time, so I'll try to go through this again. Here is the quote:
quote: You replied to it asking why you shouldn't be able to be happy believing in God just because it makes you happy. I replied to you saying that's not a problem.I then attempted to explain the quote for you, saying that the quote makes two points: 1. Simply being happy doesn't make someone a better person.2. A whole bunch of people who are happy and say that they are happier because of God... doesn't make God exist. The first point is germane to the blog and the thread, that's why it's listed first. (You eventually requested extreme clarification, given to you in Message 61).The second point is just another point that the quote makes. I was explaining the quote to you, so I thought it would be nice to... explain the quote to you. Then you latched onto the 2nd point in your Message 46, as if it was the only point, and started asking questions about how the 2nd point is derived from the quote at all.I replied to this and showed you how the 2nd point is another main factor to the quote in Message 51 Now, you ask this:
Where does the article claim that happiness in the belief in a deity is evidence for that deity's existence? I think you've gotten a bit confused to the contexts of what you've been asking about. I'll try to clarify things for you some more with a few helpful notes: The 2nd point isn't important to the article, but it is important to the quote.The 2nd point was explained in more detail to you because you asked how it was connected to the quote at all. The 1st point of the quote explains how the quote makes sense as a reply to the article in the first place. The 1st point was explained in more detail to you because you asked how the quote was connected to the article. So, the answer to your question is: I don't think the article does claim that happiness in the belief in a deity is evidence for that deity's existence.And the reason we just talked so much about it, was because you were asking how that 2nd point was connected to the quote. I answered you, and it seems like you got confused and thought I was telling you how that 2nd point was connected to the article.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Once you've accepted that life has no Purpose you can find happinesses in cleaning shoes with a purpose. I don't believe that's true, in that accepting life has no Purpose isn't a requirement. Can you make it's case with an argument?
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Jon Inactive Member |
And how exactly is the conservativeness of a religion determined?
Love your enemies!
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Jon Inactive Member |
It's clear the quote doesn't fit the context of this thread. I don't think there's any more point in discussing it.
Love your enemies!
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CS writes: I don't believe that's true, in that accepting life has no Purpose isn't a requirement. Can you make it's case with an argument? Accepting life has no Purpose is not a requirement to being content with your lot. Those that believe that it DOES have a Purpose can, of course, be happy. My comment was that those that belief life has a Purpose often think that we atheists can't be happy (or have any sense of morality for that matter) because we have no Purpose. I'm simply saying that it's perfectly possible to lead a happy and contented life having accepted that life is ultimately pointless. (In the grander sense.)Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'm simply saying that it's perfectly possible to lead a happy and contented life having accepted that life is ultimately pointless. Oh. Was I wrong to read "Once X then Y" as saying that X is required for Y? Cause that's what I think that means.
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Percy Member Posts: 22493 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Jon writes: And how exactly is the conservativeness of a religion determined? I don't understand why you're asking. Did you think I was using "conservative" in a political sense? I just meant religions toward the more fundamentalist end of the spectrum. As you can see in the graph, for example, the Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses are relatively close together, and they have the shared characteristics of lower income, lesser education, and more conservative religious beliefs such as inerrancy and stricter adherence to Biblical and traditional rules and roles. --Percy
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
Maybe he doesn't have a dictionary.
Here is one definition that fits your use of the word.
quote: I'll let him search for a source.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Jon Inactive Member
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... more conservative religious beliefs such as inerrancy and stricter adherence to Biblical and traditional rules and roles. How do you actually measure the strictness with which a religion adheres to its holy book(s)? What are 'traditional rules and roles'? Are Muslims really less conservative than Jehovah's Witnesses? Are secular folk more conservative than Hindus? Love your enemies!
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