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Author Topic:   Are Atheists Mentally Ill
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 117 (705490)
08-27-2013 9:34 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Percy
08-27-2013 7:53 PM


Re: Listing the Issues - at all
The x-axis is not a stand-in for religious conservatism and I didn't say it was.
Exactly. Conservativeness isn't on the graph at all.
What I said was that the graph shows that the more conservative religions, those with greater religiosity, have lower income and lower education.
Well, no, by your own admission the graph says nothing about conservativeness at all.
Seriously? Hard to believe, but briefly in case you're serious, conservative religions are those with greater religiosity. Examples of traditional roles and rules would be where a wife is expected to submit gracefully to her husband's bidding, or where marriage can only be between a man and woman.
Well; that didn't answer my questions at all.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Percy, posted 08-27-2013 7:53 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-27-2013 11:51 PM Jon has replied
 Message 100 by Percy, posted 08-28-2013 8:41 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 97 of 117 (705496)
08-28-2013 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by New Cat's Eye
08-27-2013 11:51 PM


As you approach the more conservative religions, you approach lower incomes and education.
The graphic doesn't show this. It doesn't even address the issue of which religions are more conservative.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-27-2013 11:51 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2013 8:32 AM Jon has replied
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 9:29 AM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 117 (705509)
08-28-2013 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by Theodoric
08-28-2013 8:32 AM


No it doesn't but observation and evaluation of the data and comparing it with other knowledge did. The graphic does not exist in a vacuum. We can, and should, bring other knowledge and data when we look at and analyze the graphic.
And that's all fine and well. My question to Percy was for clarification on what 'knowledge and data' were used in determining the conservativeness of a religion.
Are there any outliers or anomalies on the graph in terms of what can be said about religions based on their conservativeness?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2013 8:32 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Theodoric, posted 08-28-2013 9:00 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 117 (705524)
08-28-2013 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Percy
08-28-2013 8:41 AM


Re: Listing the Issues - at all
We already know that the Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses are very conservative, and I noted that those religions are on the part of the graph with the lowest incomes and education.
That's it? Three of the eighteen fit your pattern?
What about the Muslims? What about the secular folk?
How are you determining which religions are conservative when you admittedly aren't able to judge the conservativeness of one religion against the conservativeness of another?
Are those the only three conservative ones?
Are there others?
How do you decide?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Percy, posted 08-28-2013 8:41 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 117 (705526)
08-28-2013 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by New Cat's Eye
08-28-2013 9:29 AM


Nonsense. The secular group falls in the lower halfbehind Conservative Jews. And we cannot even guess at the conservativeness of the 'unaffiliated religious' because we don't have a clue in hell as to what they believe or practicethey are essentially an 'others' category.
Look at the religions that we know are the most conservative; They fall on the bottom left side of the graph.
Yes. But look at all of theminstead of just the conservative onesand we see a distributional pattern completely divorced from the conservativeness of the belief system.
You are doing what Percy is doing: picking and focusing on only the data sets that fit your predefined pattern while ignoring the others.
That don't work.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 9:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 12:41 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 117 (705529)
08-28-2013 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by New Cat's Eye
08-28-2013 12:41 PM


It obviously doesn't work across the board.
There are as many outliers as there are points fitting the 'trend'. I'd say it doesn't seem to work at all.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 12:41 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 1:38 PM Jon has replied
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 08-28-2013 1:59 PM Jon has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 117 (705550)
08-28-2013 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by New Cat's Eye
08-28-2013 1:38 PM


Picking Cherries
quote:
Catholic Scientist in Message 108:
The Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses are the most conservative Christians I can think of, and look how uneducated and poor they are!
quote:
Percy in Message 109:
Focusing just on Christian religions, from left to right on the graph (in other words, from low income/low education to high income/high education) we have this ordering
You're both making the same error. You are selecting for focus only the data points that fit the model as you see it and ignoring the rest.
And you are both refusing to address the issue of the placement of 'secular' and 'unaffiliated religious'.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-28-2013 1:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Percy, posted 08-28-2013 10:53 PM Jon has not replied
 Message 114 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-29-2013 8:53 AM Jon has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 117 (705552)
08-28-2013 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Percy
08-28-2013 1:59 PM


quote:
Catholic Scientist in Message 108:
The Baptists, Pentecostals and Jehovah's Witnesses are the most conservative Christians I can think of, and look how uneducated and poor they are!
quote:
Percy in Message 109:
Focusing just on Christian religions, from left to right on the graph (in other words, from low income/low education to high income/high education) we have this ordering
You're both making the same error. You are selecting for focus only the data points that fit the model as you see it and ignoring the rest.
And you are both refusing to address the issue of the placement of 'secular' and 'unaffiliated religious'.
Jon

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Percy, posted 08-28-2013 1:59 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
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