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Author Topic:   Biblical Eugenics - being wrong about how to colorize your goats
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 185 (706590)
09-15-2013 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 3:41 AM


Re: a test for honesty.
Ref to post 17 this is my response to you. Jacob removes the flock not laban. There is no con and there is no cheater. FYI: I did make some changes to it just a few minutes ago so you may want to reread it before responding, if you still disagree.

Edited by Alias, : clarity

Edited by Alias, : clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 3:41 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 1:46 PM Alias has responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 185 (706591)
09-15-2013 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
09-15-2013 8:48 AM


Re: a test for honesty.
Ref to post 17, I made some changes to it for clarity.

Edited by Alias, : clarity

Edited by Alias, : clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 8:48 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 185 (706593)
09-15-2013 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Alias
09-15-2013 12:51 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Jacob removes the flock not laban.

I don't care what you said in post 17. The text itself explicit states that Laban did the initial separating out of the sheep.

Genesis 30:34-36 (KJV)

quote:
34 And Laban said, Behold, I would it might be according to thy word.

35 And he removed that day the goats that were ringstraked and spotted, and all the she goats that were speckled and spotted, and every one that had some white in it, and all the brown among the sheep, and gave them into the hand of his sons.

36 And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks.


"He" and "himself" in these three verses are pretty clearly Laban and "thy" or "you" is pretty clearly Jacob. In fact, it is impossible to interpret "he" and "himself" in Verse 36 as being Jacob. It is also quite clear that the sons in verse 35 are Laban's sons.

At the end of verse 36, Jacob is assigned to tend pure white flocks and that is where his payment is going to have to come from. Laban and his sons are going to watch over the speckled animals from the original flocks.

Jacob then responds by making the strong goats in the flock produce strong specked offspring. He lets the weak sheep produce white offspring which are presumably weak.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 12:51 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:00 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 185 (706595)
09-15-2013 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Alias
09-14-2013 10:12 AM


Re: Making stuff up.
laban has no sons

Really? Then who was that pissed off group of folks in Genesis 31:1 claiming their father had been cheated by Jacob?

quote:
Jacob heard that Laban’s sons were saying, “Jacob has taken everything our father owned and has gained all this wealth from what belonged to our father.” 2 And Jacob noticed that Laban’s attitude toward him was not what it had been.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Alias, posted 09-14-2013 10:12 AM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:04 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 185 (706596)
09-15-2013 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 1:46 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
No 34 states that it be according to jacob's word which was in 32.

quote:
I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.

The rest of your point is moot.

Then we have 30:40 which shows jacob still had them.

quote:
And Jacob did separate the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the ringstraked, and all the brown in the flock of Laban; and he put his own flocks by themselves, and put them not unto Laban's cattle.

Edited by Alias, : err

Edited by Alias, : clarity

Edited by Alias, : clarity

Edited by Alias, : Err


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 1:46 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 2:05 PM Alias has responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 185 (706597)
09-15-2013 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 1:57 PM


Re: Making stuff up.
The gods were stolen and jacob left. Laban thought jacob stole the gods which is why laban was upset. And OK laban has sons. Does not change anything as per 30:40. Point still stands in post 17 with exception to my comments on labans sons.

Edited by Alias, : err

Edited by Alias, : err

Edited by Alias, : Clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 1:57 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 185 (706598)
09-15-2013 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Alias
09-15-2013 2:00 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
No 34 states that it be according to jacob's word which was in 32.

Yes, and as the text makes clear, Laban removes the speckle animals before Jacob gets a chance to take his walk. Verses 35 and 36 make that abundantly clear. Laban did not keep to the spirit of his promise although arguably he did stick to the letter of it.

By the way, did you notice that Laban actually did have sons?

The rest of your point is moot

Meaning that you have no answer for those arguments.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:00 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:36 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 40 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:48 PM NoNukes has responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3964
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 38 of 185 (706599)
09-15-2013 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Alias
09-14-2013 10:37 AM


I feel it is corrupt but you have to sift through it to find important god inspired scriptures.

What criteria are you using to sift the inspired scripture from the non-inspired scripture?


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Alias, posted 09-14-2013 10:37 AM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 6:47 PM Larni has not yet responded

    
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 185 (706600)
09-15-2013 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 2:05 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
No 35 is referring to jacob due to their agreement in 32. Ref to post 17 for my point on 36. In verse 40, if Laban removed the sparkled, spotted and streaked flock in 35 to cheat jacob, why does jacob have access to the sparkled, spotted and streaked flock of laban's?

Edited by Alias, : Question

Edited by Alias, : Question about Vera 40

Edited by Alias, : Question about verse 40!


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 2:05 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 10:46 PM Alias has responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 185 (706601)
09-15-2013 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 2:05 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Logic. In short, Jesus didn't walk on water. The red sea was not parted in the exodus. Stuff that is clear myth is myth. Revelation in other cases like genesis 1-2. Order of creation is not important if it were they would of wrote them in the same order. We can probably see actual order of creation in the fossil record.

Edited by Alias, : Clarity


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 2:05 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 6:35 PM Alias has responded
 Message 44 by frako, posted 09-15-2013 7:06 PM Alias has responded
 Message 77 by Larni, posted 09-16-2013 4:32 PM Alias has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 185 (706616)
09-15-2013 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Alias
09-15-2013 2:48 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Logic. In short, Jesus didn't walk on water. The red sea was not parted in the exodus. Stuff that is clear myth is myth. Revelation in other cases like genesis 1-2. Order of creation is not important if it were they would of wrote them in the same order. We can probably see actual order of creation in the fossil record.

I have no idea what you are talking about.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:48 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 6:46 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 185 (706617)
09-15-2013 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by NoNukes
09-15-2013 6:35 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
I didn't mean to respond to you. I responded from my smartphone. Sorry. Ref post 39.

Edited by Alias, : Ref


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 6:35 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 185 (706618)
09-15-2013 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Larni
09-15-2013 2:25 PM


Hello larni! Ref to post 40. Thx. Sorry about the confusion.

Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Larni, posted 09-15-2013 2:25 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2795
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 44 of 185 (706619)
09-15-2013 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Alias
09-15-2013 2:48 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Logic. In short, Jesus didn't walk on water. The red sea was not parted in the exodus. Stuff that is clear myth is myth. Revelation in other cases like genesis 1-2. Order of creation is not important if it were they would of wrote them in the same order. We can probably see actual order of creation in the fossil record.

Sorry to butt in, but if you use logic then you have to throw just about everything if not everything in the book out.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 2:48 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 8:34 PM frako has not yet responded

    
Alias
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 185 (706624)
09-15-2013 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by frako
09-15-2013 7:06 PM


Re: a test for honesty.
Such as? I mean the idea that abiogenesis occurred is completely logical to atheists yet there is absolutely no evidence for it. What do you purpose how life started?

Edited by Alias, : question


Thanks
Alias :-)

FYI:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." -Albert Einstein

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: if we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back" - Carl Sagan -Demon Haunted World

"The whole history of science has been the gradual realization that events do not happen in an arbitrary manner, but that they reflect a certain underlying order, which may or may not be divinely inspired." -Stephen Hawking

"Before God we are all equally wise and equally foolish." -Albert Einstein


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by frako, posted 09-15-2013 7:06 PM frako has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 09-15-2013 9:08 PM Alias has responded
 Message 49 by NoNukes, posted 09-15-2013 10:22 PM Alias has not yet responded

  
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