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Author Topic:   Relevance of origins to modern science
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 6 of 124 (707156)
09-24-2013 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Ra3MaN
09-24-2013 5:34 AM


I would like to pose, what i feel are two of the most important questions that determine whether scientifically explained origins are religious pursuits or not.
That's kinda like asking if a white tablecloth is black or not...
1) What significance does Cosmic/Chemical/Biological origins (And there connection) have, in our endeavors for modern Science?
Its just another piece of the pie. Science tries to figure out what it can, origins is just another thing its working on.
-A case study for example: Can modern pharmacogenetics progress using genetic similarity alone?
I don't see why not? You got any reason to suggest otherwise?
-Also, Vaccine products can be identified using relatively short cladograms in e.g. viral genomes, why is it then necessary to have a whole tree of life?
So that we are accurately mapping the territory. Its just to be thorough and there's no reason to stop.
2) Could the current origin theories, in this argument, biological, be biased inferences fundamentally based on Darwinist ideas? I.e. Because Darwin observed the similar beaks, inferences regarding similar genomes on a global scale, follow in his evolutionary idea...
Let me know what you think.
Well, do you know how baby animals come to exist? They are offspring of their parent animals. Animals come from animals. If you follow then lines backwards, you're going to funnel up into the tree back to a common ancestors of whatever two animals you're looking at.
There's no other way for animals to get here except from other animals so it only makes sense that if you go back far enough then they're all related. How else could it be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-24-2013 5:34 AM Ra3MaN has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-24-2013 11:26 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 124 (707166)
09-24-2013 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Ra3MaN
09-24-2013 11:26 AM


If Science tries to answer the origin questions, does that not challenge the beliefs held by people?
Yeah but.... fuck 'em.
Thus in support of my original statement, The scientist has to apply belief - which is not a solely religious word but also forms the basis of religion.
Meh, I don't see how that it matters?
Honestly, how far back do you need to map e.g. the Human Immunodeficiency virus before you can work towards vaccine candidates?
I have no idea. But I don't see the relevance either?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-24-2013 11:26 AM Ra3MaN has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-24-2013 12:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 21 of 124 (707176)
09-24-2013 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Ra3MaN
09-24-2013 12:05 PM


haha, wow that is distasteful Scientific language.
Huh? Its not scientific at all
I guess the goal of the origin studies is to allow people to be answerable to no-one.
Then you guess wrong. The goal of studying is to learn.
You are already well on your way
You don't know me. You judge too quickly and based on what? Because I typed a naughty word
Consider the god of the gaps argument. Religious people single out the gaps to justify why whole evolutionary thoery is inaccurate and built on assumptions. While non-relgious say that we don't know how, but it happened that way. Furthermore, a gap such as "what cause the big bang?" could remain unanswered. Saying that "we are trying to find out" is a useful defense to state, but it is also a cop-out and be compared to the the notion that rainbow ponies kicked nothing out of equilibrum and formed the universe via big bang.
No, its not a cop-out. That's just the way science is performed: Its an empirical evidence-based approach. Its why science has been kicking so much ass. If it ain't got evidence then it'll remain ignored. It doesn't matter what kind of fancy nonsense you want to make up and believe in.
And you know what: an empirical evidence based approach works extremely well and is the best we've ever have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-24-2013 12:05 PM Ra3MaN has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-25-2013 6:26 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 48 of 124 (707323)
09-26-2013 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Ra3MaN
09-26-2013 4:17 AM


I made a joke, I apologize, I thought you didn't care about other people.
I forgive you.
I was wrong to Judge. I was more referring to his disregard for other people regarding their beliefs.
Well, look at the context:
quote:
Well, do you know how baby animals come to exist? They are offspring of their parent animals. Animals come from animals. If you follow then lines backwards, you're going to funnel up into the tree back to a common ancestors of whatever two animals you're looking at.
There's no other way for animals to get here except from other animals so it only makes sense that if you go back far enough then they're all related. How else could it be?
I guess that may be true. If Science tries to answer the origin questions, does that not challenge the beliefs held by people?
Yeah but.... fuck 'em.

Challenging the beliefs held by people should in no way whatsoever get in the way of science trying to answer any questions. To even stiffle scientific progress in the slightest bit because of trying to be sensitive towards people's beliefs is utterly ridiculous and should be avoided at all cost.
So yeah, fuck 'em. Stay out of the way and let science progress.
This could include anyone, even his superiors even a Catholic god.
Truth is true and nothing should stand in its way.
Technically he is disregarding anyone how has opposing beliefs.
Unless those beliefs have empirical evidence for them, then yes, from a scientific perspective I think they should be totally disregarded. Otherwise, while they may be interesting to hear or think about, they'll only get in the way and slow us down.
profanity is a simple substitute for a well thought out challenge/insult in my opinion.
There's nothing wrong with profanity and it can get a point across quite effectively.
I guess this is a separate topic, but in terms of evolution, who does man answer to?
Man answers to man. Scientifically, that's the only way we have any evidence for whatsoever.
A really scary thing that I can't get my head around, is that neither of us can perform in situ studies to show bio divergence, or stellar formation and the like. Also, concepts, such as Abioigenises is a pivotal point in chemical history and yet it is seemingly impossible to assess without guessing variables to a large degree, even using inference upon inference is tricky. wouldn't you say?
Tricky? Sure. That's why it takes years and years of study to figure things out.
But you know what? It works. I mean, here we are, like, 14,000 kilometers away from each other and we're directly communicating almost instantly. This wonderful technology we have is based on that tricky inference upon inference that you're berating. For Christ's sake, there's people orbiting the planet in a space station right now... and its based on that tricky inference upon inference.
There's no reason to think that, because it challenges your beliefs, that other aspect of scientific research might be totally wrong.
You should have your beliefs challenged. And when they don't hold up to scrutiny, and when they have evidence against them, you should change them.
The truth is true. Disregarding it because you believe something else is a terrible folly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Ra3MaN, posted 09-26-2013 4:17 AM Ra3MaN has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 124 (707344)
09-26-2013 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Dr Adequate
09-26-2013 11:41 AM


No, let us rather say along with Catholic Scientist: "Fuck 'em". We don't have to be mean to them, we don't have to call them names, and we don't have to say to their faces: "Fuck you". And yet we shouldn't have to keep quiet about what shape the Earth is just to protect their delicate sensibilities.
That's exactly what I meant.
I didn't mean that we should say "Fuck them!", like they're assholes. Like: Fuck those jerks!
I meant it like: "Meh, *shrugs*, fuck 'em.
Like this:
In response to: "But your research is challenging people's beliefs"
Let "bowling" = "continue to do science"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-26-2013 11:41 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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