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Author Topic:   The Human Eating-Speaking System - Bad Design?
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 16 of 27 (706922)
09-19-2013 4:21 PM


Hmmmm. I like the way we are designed.
Just do like your mommi told you and not talk with your bloody mouth full. And you wont choke.

Oh, and P.S.
If you are daft enough to choke to death while eating and talking, then that would be one more idiot selected out of the breeding population.

Edited by 1.61803, : P.S.

Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 27 (706969)
09-20-2013 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by caffeine
09-19-2013 9:22 AM


The examples I find don't cut the cake.

If you want to let me find the evidence for your theory, then I will present some.

Just don't expect it to be particular good evidence that I find.

On the other hand, if you can think of something real solid that supports your claims, bring it forward.


Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by caffeine, posted 09-19-2013 9:22 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by caffeine, posted 09-24-2013 5:12 AM Jon has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 18 of 27 (707140)
09-24-2013 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jon
09-20-2013 8:38 AM


The examples I find don't cut the cake.

If you want to let me find the evidence for your theory, then I will present some.

Just don't expect it to be particular good evidence that I find.

On the other hand, if you can think of something real solid that supports your claims, bring it forward.

Sorry for slow reply, I had overlooked your reply until now.

My sarcastic response with the Google was because I didn't really understand why you were asking me for evidence. You wouldn't ask me for evidence if I claimed that the sky was blue, or that people had heads, so I wasn't sure why I needed to prove that parrots can talk. Here's one, though, if it's really necessary.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Jon, posted 09-20-2013 8:38 AM Jon has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by 1.61803, posted 09-25-2013 5:39 PM caffeine has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 19 of 27 (707279)
09-25-2013 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by caffeine
09-24-2013 5:12 AM


Hi Caffeine, some folks say , "Parrots do not really talk, just mimic human speech."

I have as pets, both a African Grey and a Yellow head Amazon . They do talk and know what it is they are saying.

They sometime get things mixed when they associate a action with a word.

For instance when I lose my keys and am in a hurry, (which must happen alot), I rummage around the house looking.

My Grey responds to this by saying, "Fucking shit!!!"

I wonder where he gets it from?


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by caffeine, posted 09-24-2013 5:12 AM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by NoNukes, posted 09-25-2013 6:01 PM 1.61803 has responded
 Message 24 by caffeine, posted 09-26-2013 3:36 AM 1.61803 has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9320
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 20 of 27 (707280)
09-25-2013 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by 1.61803
09-25-2013 5:39 PM


Hi Caffeine, some folks say , "Parrots do not really talk, just mimic human speech."

What I've read on the subject agrees with you. At least some birds are capable of learning to use human speech to communicate in a limited way.

I'm not sure that even matters. The point is that the physical apparatus that birds have works fine, so we can eliminate some of the human eating apparatus as being required for speech.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by 1.61803, posted 09-25-2013 5:39 PM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 09-25-2013 9:26 PM NoNukes has responded
 Message 26 by 1.61803, posted 09-26-2013 10:03 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 27 (707282)
09-25-2013 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by NoNukes
09-25-2013 6:01 PM


Well, I've done some searching, and I haven't found an example of birds speaking in any clear manner.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by NoNukes, posted 09-25-2013 6:01 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by caffeine, posted 09-26-2013 3:32 AM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 25 by NoNukes, posted 09-26-2013 4:57 AM Jon has not yet responded

  
Coyote
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Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 22 of 27 (707283)
09-25-2013 9:43 PM


The Human Eating-Speaking System - Bad Design?
You want another problem?

The waste disposal system is all mixed up with the recreation area.

Pretty bad design, eh?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 23 of 27 (707291)
09-26-2013 3:32 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jon
09-25-2013 9:26 PM


Well, I've done some searching, and I haven't found an example of birds speaking in any clear manner.

May I direct your eyes slightly further up the screen where I showed you one?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 09-25-2013 9:26 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 24 of 27 (707292)
09-26-2013 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by 1.61803
09-25-2013 5:39 PM


Hi Caffeine, some folks say , "Parrots do not really talk, just mimic human speech."

I have as pets, both a African Grey and a Yellow head Amazon . They do talk and know what it is they are saying.

The long term Avian Learning Experiment suggests that some parrots, at least, can ascribe meaning to the sounds they produce, and can understand a simple grammar. Like NoNukes says, though, avian cognition isn't of relevance to the topic. The question is simply whether the trachael anatomy of birds allows them to produce a large enough variety of sounds for human-like communication. This is so obviously and undeniably true that I'm a bit baffled what Jon is being so obtuse about.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by 1.61803, posted 09-25-2013 5:39 PM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by 1.61803, posted 09-26-2013 5:17 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9320
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 25 of 27 (707298)
09-26-2013 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Jon
09-25-2013 9:26 PM


Well, I've done some searching, and I haven't found an example of birds speaking in any clear manner.

Then either your search is poor or your evaluation is off.

Einstein the parrot speaks well enough to end this sorry excuse for a discussion thread. The parrot makes sounds that are "sufficient enough for carrying the complex thoughts of our complex brains."


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Jon, posted 09-25-2013 9:26 PM Jon has not yet responded

    
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 26 of 27 (707316)
09-26-2013 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by NoNukes
09-25-2013 6:01 PM


Hi NoNukes,

I'm not sure that even matters. The point is that the physical apparatus that birds have works fine, so we can eliminate some of the human eating apparatus as being required for speech.

While we are at it can we remove the capsaicin receptors from our anus. I feel that if it was part of a divine design it was in poor taste. *pun intended.*

I mean, I understand why they would be on our mouths, eyes and tounge, but to line our anus with them is just cruel.

Shrimp diablos anyone?


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by NoNukes, posted 09-25-2013 6:01 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2664
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 27 of 27 (707389)
09-26-2013 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by caffeine
09-26-2013 3:36 AM


I have two very articulate birds. They know exactley what they are saying. They very clearly say "Goodmorning" In the morning.

They say good bye. when I am leaving the house.

They say good night when I am turning the lights off at night.

Not only does my grey say the apropriate words, he says it in my own voice.

I have never heard them say good morning, when it was night.
I have never heard them say good night, when it was morning.

I can attest to the fact that they not only can speak quite clearly,
they know what they are saying. So far as to say the speak the appropriate words at the appropriate time.

Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by caffeine, posted 09-26-2013 3:36 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
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