Summations Only

Hello CS again. I've been super busy at work. If these employers don't know anything about the healthcare law and they are dissing it anyway, then there is no excuse for their behavior.Nothing bothers me more than people who pre-judge. I fail to see why you would defend this behavior. You misunderstand me. I don't "blame" anyone. The reason I say employers use the government (Obama and Obamacare in particular) is because they do. Ok, I admit it. I use the boogie man on the construction workers, too. Such is the fact of life. And I'm sure the people higher up than me use a boogie man of some kind on me as well.Intelligent and educated people recognize when a boogie man is used and they just go along with it with a grain of salt. Non-intelligent, uneducated people (who make up the vast majority of the populous) will come to believe in the boogie man and dwell on it. Again, such is the fact of life.You may ask why I use the boogie man at all on the construction workers. For me, it just makes my life easier. When I'm on the site, I make all the decisions. I'm the boss. I'm the project engineer. Sure, I can tell them to do this and do that and appear as an ass. Or I can pretend to be on the phone one moment and then tell them they need to do this or do that because the "big boss" says so. We some times get scrappers (the guys that go around looking for junk metal to sell) on our sites. I used to tell them "I'm the boss and I say you guys can't take our shit". Then they would proceed to try to talk me into letting them take away my garbage. Nowadays, I just tell them I was just on the phone with my boss and he would call the police if they don't leave immediately.You'd be surprised how many people use a boogie man of some kind for the sake of convenience. Like I said, the vast majority of the people will believe in the existence of the boogie man. Makes our lives a lot easier.Anyway, the point is because of my profession, I can recognize from miles away when the boogie man is real and when he is not. I assure you, the boogie man that is Obama and Obamacare is definitely not real.I say this with no vested interest of whether Obamacare succeeds or not. I am not affected by its success or failure at all. And frankly, I honestly don't care that much about it. So, the owner was bullshitting. Your friend believed and ate his bullshit. And after hearing your friend spouting out the same bullshit, you believed this bullshit. Great...

Any employer who would cut workers time to avoid having to provide health insurance is simply a slime ball dipshit and I cannot imagine why anyone would work for such an asshole.Edited by jar, : add e

People who don't have a choice.Wal-mart and Burger King seem to have no shortage of people signing up to work for them.

Here's the thing. Business owners are not gods. Most business owners are your regular moms and pops. And because they are regular people, they often times fall prey to the boogie man arguments by conservatives.Everything Obama does is bad. Obamacare is bad for business. Obama wants to turn the US into a socialist state. Etc.I don't understand why people keep saying "I'm a business owner blah blah" as if just because they own a business then they know everything there is to know about capitalism.Take the business tax increase and laying off employees, for example. Last year my state had a business tax increase by like 2%. I remember listening on the radio on my way to work how business owners are laying people off so they could have enough money to pay the new tax. What a load of bullshit.I used to own a business. According to their bullshit logic, their employees don't make them any money at all. Think about it. They have to lay people off to pay the 2% business tax increase? How does that make any sense? And yet business owners and conservatives dwelled on this argument. One guy on the radio even claimed to have to lay 2 people off in order to pay for the 2% increase. How the hell does this make any sense?To me, saying "I'm a business owner blah blah" is pretty much like saying "I'm a quantum physicist so I have authoritative voice on the best way to make a pizza." It makes no sense, and yet conservatives love to spout this nonsense.

Well i guess their ideal ratio of productivity, cost of doing business, and income got messed with when the new tax came in, and it made more sense to produce less at less cost, then the same at more cost.But it doubt that was the reason most small business owners, dont do any calculations they just go with their gut. Well at least in Slovenia, a few years ago small sawmills where selling their products at a loss because small business owners are idiots.

Curiously, IMHO that is one of the biggest piles of bovine excrement that I have seen in some time, and no, I do not "go along with it" grain of salt or no. So you regularly lie to your workers and expect them respect you? Yeah, I know a guy like that here ... always "on the phone" with his bluetooth in his ear -- he is roundly mocked behind his back by the workers around him.Enjoy.

Again, such is the fact of life. Obama is the boogie man that a lot of employers like to use. Retail stores have been cutting people's hours for years and years, making everyone into a part time worker. Not just retail stores. Many industries have been doing the same. My boyfriend, for example, was working for enterprise car rental. He's young, so he only knew Obama as president while he was working, and they kept telling him he couldn't work for more than 15hr a week because of Obama. His brother works as a butcher for Jewel and they definitely tells him he can't work for more than 21-25hr a week because of Obama.I happen to know that all these companies have been making their workers work part-time long before Obama came around. It's just cheaper and more efficient for them to do that.I'm sorry, RAZD, but everybody does this. For me, I tend to point my finger to "someone" higher up so I don't have to deal with explaining things to people. And I don't like scrappers. They keep stealing our shit, which in the end I have to sign off on. They can laugh at me all they want. Just as long as I get the job done.The new Obamacare is a godsend to employers because they can blame all their problems on it. Employer mandate won't come into affect until 2015, and yet they are already using it as their boogie man. CS I'm sure is a very bright person, and even he is fooled. Tells you how effective it is to use the boogie man.Anyway, I actually kinda feel sad now that so many of the laborers I've gotten to know are getting laid off for the winter. I don't make the decision. It's the contractor that we hire that make the decision. They provide us with the laborers. And from what I've been hearing, they definitely blame Obama and Obamacare. I haven't figured out if the workers truly believe this or if they're just going along with it. After all, it happens every year and they're suppose to go on unemployment regardless of if a republican or democrat was in office.Curiously, remember the Obama stimulus? That money kept myself along with thousands of other people in construction employed for 2 years when things were extremely slow. And now what happens? Pretty much everyone I know in the profession are dissing Obama and Obamacare, using him as an excuse for all their problems. Amazing how fast people turn against you nowadays.

This is not something "everybody does". In fact, blaming the boss is a tactic you'd be taught not to use in any leadership course. I've never had to use that ruse. And that includes even my time as an ensign just a few months after being commissioned.Some people do use it, but doing so invariably costs them much of their ability to lead because the people they have to lead never see any reason to respect them.

Shit, I post from work. I get paid to do this. I don't think there's an excuse for cutting peoples' hours to avoid paying on their healtchcare, period. It doesn't matter if you know the law or not. Please quote the portions of my message that indicated to you that I was defending that behavior. Seriously. I may have wrote something poorly, but I have a feeling its you, not me. Only dead fish go with the flow. That makes me cringe. Holier-than-thou is annoying, but smarter-than-most is about the worst. Ugh, double cringe. You're not the first person to tell us that they have some special recognition skillz. Nobody gives a shit about what you know unless you can point us to the evidence for it. That's not assuring at all. Well, what did I really claim though? That the owner said some stuff. That really did happen.Why should I doubt that the owner was considering lowering hours to avoid paying on healthcare? If they did it in response to their perception of the ACA, then why shouldn't I say that that was the cause? How does them being wrong about some of the particulars make the whole issue go away?ABE:From Message 1162: The Employer Mandate was going to go into effect Jan. 2014. They only recently extended it by a year. So there's not reason to say that them "already" using it is an indication of boogie-manning.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : ABE

Well, gee wiz, it is not really special skills. It is common sense. I've been doing this longer than Obama has been in office. Construction workers get laid off starting October regardless of if Obama was in or not. And retail stores have been keeping people on part time years before Obamacare even existed as a concept. But all of a sudden it is all Obamas fault that construction workers get laid off in the winter and retail workers remain part time employees. To me its just common sense.

Oh, well, that isn't what I was talking about with my anecdote.

It does strike me that you are part of the problem rather tyhan part of the solution here....

Even when the law was timed to go into effect in 2014, the mandate still would not have affect anyone's current hour work schedule.

Somebody is doing a terrible job at explaining this new law to employers.

So we've established that you are a regular liar. Why should anyone trust anything you say? No, everybody does not do this. If you want to build trust with someone, you don't do it by lying, you do it by telling the truth." ... everybody does this ... " is the logical fallacy of appeal to (assumed) popularity. In addition to being logically false, the claim "that "everybody does this" does not make it good or proper -- it is just your justification of your behavior. It is the lie you tell yourself.EnjoyEdited by RAZD, : ...