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Author Topic:   Anselm's Doctrine of Substitution
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 10 of 80 (717159)
01-24-2014 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Theodoric
01-24-2014 1:08 PM


Re: God need never lie.
Lying by Omission is not a lie?
If I'm sitting there doing nothing and think "That's the ugliest thing I have ever seen!" and I say nothing, are you calling me a liar?
If I said, "Oh, I like that," then OK, hit me.
If I am in court describing an accident and neglect to mention that the car was red because Mr. Prosecutor neglected to ask, am I guilty of perjury?
If I am asked for the color but go off on a tangent describing the height of the shrubbery at the intersection then Mr. P will glare at me and ask for the color again. If I go off on another tangent neglecting to answer then Mr. P will get the Judge to verbally lambast me and warn me to answer directly. If I go off on yet another tangent then His Honor will toss my butt in jail - not for perjury but for contempt.
Now, if I intially answered "blue" instead of "red" then, yes, that is perjury for which I will burn in ... well, someplace.
I can think of many scenarios where keeping quiet about something would be immoral, even criminally so, but, as far as I am aware we need a direct false affirmation to be considered a lie. I may very well be wrong.
When would keeping one's own counsel be considered a lie?
Edited by AZPaul3, : more

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Theodoric, posted 01-24-2014 1:08 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 01-25-2014 9:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 15 of 80 (717255)
01-25-2014 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
01-25-2014 9:18 AM


Re: God need never lie.
I don't have any problem with your definitions. But I will note that punishment for contempt of court gets applied much more frequently than does punishment for perjury.
The point was that the punishment for saying nothing was not a charge of perjury (which it might be if Theo is correct) but a charge of contempt.
People do take offense at being called liars in particular, but is being called a no good, weaslin' dissembler within whom the truth does not live really that much less offensive? I think not.
I'm not sure where this is coming from. No one is making that contention.
So the question becomes:
When would keeping one's own counsel be considered being a no good, weaslin' dissembler within whom the truth does not live?
Have it any way you want. I'm not especially particular.
And if the car being red means the defendant is innocent, is omitting that fact less evil than lying?
I'm not sure where this is coming from either. I did address this in my message but it is just a side issue. As I said I can think of many occasions where remaining silent would be immoral, even criminal. That still does not answer my question.
From Theo: "Lying by Omission is not a lie?" indicating to phat the remaining silent on some issue or other (I really don't care what or who or why) is lying (or being a no good, weaslin' dissembler within whom the truth does not live).
Theo may be right, but I can't see it. Is he right?
An example would be nice.
I realize this is a left field tangent from the OP but inquiring minds want to know. If no one cares to answer that is OK. We can all go about our merry way. I will not be declaring victory over anything because I'm not challenging anything, just inquiring. I have no ego in this game.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 01-25-2014 9:18 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 31 of 80 (717670)
01-30-2014 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
01-29-2014 12:31 PM


Re: The Greater Good
Perhaps our prayer (just in case) should be to ask God for wisdom and insight on what the actual spiritual reality is.
That has been happening for thousands of years, Phat. The result has been thousands of different, competing, often conflicting, "spiritual realities" each one claiming to be The AnswerTM as revealed by besought prayer.
How can there be any The AnswerTM when there appears to be no single god to give a consistent The AnswerTM? This leaves The AnswerTM as a product of the emotional comfort of an individual's faith not as a product of any spiritual reality.
And the very act of prayer to some chosen deity, Phat, already presupposes the kind of The AnswerTM the individual is expecting to receive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 01-29-2014 12:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
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