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Author Topic:   Anselm's Doctrine of Substitution
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 5 of 80 (717062)
01-23-2014 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
01-23-2014 12:48 PM


Re: God need never lie.
Is this not a bit like, "Can God create a rock he can not lift?"
Either answer results in God not being omnipotent.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-23-2014 12:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 01-23-2014 8:38 PM 1.61803 has replied
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 01-25-2014 11:57 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 16 of 80 (717430)
01-27-2014 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Jon
01-25-2014 11:57 AM


Re: God need never lie.
Hi Jon,
Thanks for the thoughtful response.
To which I will add:
If triangels had a god, it would have three sides.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 01-25-2014 11:57 AM Jon has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 17 of 80 (717435)
01-27-2014 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
01-23-2014 8:38 PM


Re: God need never lie.
Hi Phat,
I will answer with a question:
If during the holocaust a German family is hiding a family of jews in the attic. The SS come to the door and ask, are you hiding any jews in here. Is it as sin for the home owner to lie in order to save the jewish family therein?
Quid est veritas?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 01-23-2014 8:38 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 01-27-2014 12:11 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 19 of 80 (717504)
01-28-2014 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Phat
01-27-2014 12:11 PM


Re: God need never lie.
Phat writes:
yes, I would lie to protect them.
So is lying in the spirit of the greater good a sin or no?
If a mother or father are hiding from some enemy troops amoung a group of fellow villiagers. And they will all be put to the sword if found. Is it wrong for the mother to smother her crying baby to save the group?
Quid est veratas?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Phat, posted 01-27-2014 12:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 01-28-2014 1:41 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 23 of 80 (717529)
01-28-2014 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
01-28-2014 1:41 PM


Re: The Greater Good
Phat writes:
What are her intentions?
Her intentions are to kill her crying child to save many more lives.
The point I suppose I was getting at is many religions demand certainty and a black or white answer. Life on the other hand is anything but that.
We can try as we may to contort our sense of morality and conform to the religious flavor of our choosing.
But at the end of the day we are all faced with the shades of gray that make up the pallet of our lives.
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 01-28-2014 1:41 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-28-2014 6:01 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 25 of 80 (717588)
01-29-2014 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Phat
01-28-2014 6:01 PM


Re: The Greater Good
Phat writes:
Is that defacto evil?
If evil ever existed it most certainly does so in war itself.
Phat writes:
Surely Gods son had greater character value than any one (or even many) of us.
Fully God and yet fully human.
quote:
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.Matt 25:40
Phat, is it the nobility of character or the defamed and wretched who personify the mercy of Christ. Was that not whole point of God becomming fully human. Mary feeding him mashed bits of food. God stuffing his little face. God learning to walk, to experiance being human?
Phat writes:
According to Anselm, all power follows the will. Satan was the originator of willful lies...not God. God only made it a possibility. Satan (or the snake, at any rate) made it an actuality.
quote:
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.Isaiah 45:7
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 01-28-2014 6:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 01-29-2014 12:02 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 27 of 80 (717594)
01-29-2014 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
01-29-2014 12:02 PM


Re: The Greater Good
Phat writes:
God created evil merely by creating free will
Can freewill exist without evil? Or is one choice over another simply a preference?
Phat writes:
Lucifer was exposed (as we all are now) only to the possibility of evil. God did not directly make him choose to rebel, any more than God being guilty of murder by virtue of any one of us doing it.
Lucifer was a angel, a immortal being of pure intellect.
God created Lucifer, knowing he would betray him and be cast out of heaven.
Lucifer was no more responsible for his creation than us.
Where is our free will in terms of our own creation?
And as far as God not choosing Lucifer to rebel or us to kill,
Maybe....
for something to happen something must exist.
for there to be death, there must be life.
for there to be Good, ....well you know the rest.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 01-29-2014 12:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 01-29-2014 12:31 PM 1.61803 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1531 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 30 of 80 (717611)
01-29-2014 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Raphael
01-29-2014 12:55 PM


Raphael writes:
Sin does indeed exist, but it is quite a mystery.
Hello Raphael, another angel eh?
Sin is a necessary as the betrayal of Christ was.
The mystery of faith, we can seek the answers in scripture but we are human and deeply flawed to perfection.
Peace

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Raphael, posted 01-29-2014 12:55 PM Raphael has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Raphael, posted 01-31-2014 2:38 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
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