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Author Topic:   The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 91 of 342 (718019)
02-03-2014 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
02-03-2014 6:28 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
The fact is that NOTHING can ever disprove evolution. It's made of Silly Putty.
This would: A rabbit in the precambrian.
There's so many things that could disprove evolution that we even have clichs for them.
The problem is that everything actually does confirm the idea. You know, 'cause its right. The problem is that nothing has ever disproved it, but not that nothing can ever. There's plenty of things that could like, literally, a rabbit in the precambrian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 6:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 8:18 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 107 by Eliyahu, posted 02-04-2014 12:26 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
shalamabobbi
Member (Idle past 2849 days)
Posts: 397
Joined: 01-10-2009


(3)
Message 92 of 342 (718022)
02-03-2014 7:11 PM


Y'all be bad mouthin' creashun science. Faith don't like that kinda blasphemy.
"Silly putty" and "mud pies" are tuff arguments to debate. She has certainly put y'all in your place!
Creation science has much to offer. There are seminars, symposia, conferences, museums and social meetups.
If you are a Christian lurker, you might be asking yourself, "As an adult interested in arresting the intellectual development and curiosity of a young mind, what can I do to help?" You can engage in indoctrination for the kids, help out in summer camps, be an advisor for a club or perhaps become a teacher in a preschool program.
Get 'em while they're young before the mind has matured sufficiently, otherwise they'll just laugh you to scorn.
Carry on the abuse to the next generation.
It's a tradition.
Here's an idea for a fun new tradition. When you and your spouse bring a soul into the world speak to him/her in a made up non-existent language until they are about 12 years of age. Then watch as they try to cope with the world. It's a fun joke to play that will provide lots of entertainment!
The first tradition is probably more damaging, but why limit the fun to just one!

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 93 of 342 (718028)
02-03-2014 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
02-03-2014 6:28 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
The fact is that NOTHING can ever disprove evolution.
You may have inadvertently told the truth --- it is almost certainly the case that nothing can disprove evolution. As you are a creationist, I presume that you intended to pretend that nothing would disprove evolution, which is obviously false: lots of things would disprove it if they were actually true. For example the one thing Eliyahu is quite right about is that it would disprove evolution if there was no sign of it in the fossil record. That's why the little liar is wasting so much energy in pretending that this is the case.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 6:28 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 94 of 342 (718029)
02-03-2014 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by New Cat's Eye
02-03-2014 6:48 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
This would: A rabbit in the precambrian.
Naa, you'd just "prove" it was a hoax somehow or other, and blame it on creationists too of course, or it accidentally got dislodged and displaced somehow, or you'd misidentified that layer. You'd come up with something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2014 6:48 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 9:08 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 96 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-03-2014 9:30 PM Faith has replied
 Message 126 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-04-2014 10:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 95 of 342 (718031)
02-03-2014 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
02-03-2014 8:18 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
Naa, you'd just "prove" it was a hoax somehow or other, and blame it on creationists too of course, or it accidentally got dislodged and displaced somehow, or you'd misidentified that layer. You'd come up with something.
If a creationist found it, yes. It would be regarded as an outright fabrication until shown otherwise by some evidence.
Creationists' reputation for scientific accuracy leaves much to be desired. And it is a reputation that has been well-earned. Just look at the many creationist websites. Or your posts here.
You are a poster-girl for that well-earned reputation.
You think you are "winning" these debates, but in reality you are showing large numbers of lurkers just how duplicitous the creationist position really is.
St. Augustine was right:
Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men.
If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion.
Yup. You're the poster-girl for this sorry state of affairs.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 8:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 96 of 342 (718032)
02-03-2014 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
02-03-2014 8:18 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
Naa, you'd just "prove" it was a hoax somehow or other, and blame it on creationists too of course, or it accidentally got dislodged and displaced somehow, or you'd misidentified that layer. You'd come up with something.
So now you're playing make-believe about what people would do under a set of imaginary circumstances?
Can I join in? If you saw a magic unicorn, you'd crap yourself. That's my imaginary made-up story, and I'm sticking to it.
Of course, if you could find something which did actually disprove evolution, you wouldn't have to play make-believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 8:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Faith, posted 02-03-2014 10:55 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 97 of 342 (718036)
02-03-2014 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Coyote
02-03-2014 6:40 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
But, unfortunately for you, creationists are not the ones likely to come up with those things.
And it most certainly will not be done by cherry picking quote-mines.

we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 6:40 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 10:31 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 98 of 342 (718037)
02-03-2014 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by RAZD
02-03-2014 10:25 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
But, unfortunately for you, creationists are not the ones likely to come up with those things.
And it most certainly will not be done by cherry picking quote-mines.
When the bible and scripture are your sources of evidence, and rhetoric and apologetics are your methods, quote-mining is a natural way of doing things.
And, as usual, the exact opposite of real science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2014 10:25 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 99 of 342 (718038)
02-03-2014 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Dr Adequate
02-03-2014 9:30 PM


Re: Nothing can ever disprove evolution
There's so much that disproves evolution, where to start? Well, start with the fact that you DON'T have the transitionals Darwin said you'd have to have. You have a few paltry wannabe transitionals, but nothing like the great number and variety Darwin knew were required. But that doesn't stop evolution. 'Cuz it's Silly Putty, it can be shaped any way you like it.
The mere appearance of created things disproves it, so clearly the result of a Creative Intelligence, not mindless physical and chemical accidents. But you deny that too, pretend an Intelligence is not needed. Invent scenarios, Interpretations, call them Fact, say This happened, That happened, as if it really did. Silly Putty.
Then there's the Flood, which so nicely accounts for the strata and the fossils but you can just assert it doesn't and make up Likely Stories out of bits and pieces of known fact but mostly sheer imagination, say you've disproved the Flood. Yes, just say it, that's all you have to do, name it and it's true. Silly Putty.
Darwin declared that what was known to have genetic causes, i.e. microevolution or the well known variation within Species, which is the ONLY known "descent with modification," was capable of producing new Species. Simply declared it, no evidence, no proof, just rename things and there you have it. And ever since that's all that's happened, the renaming of everything. Silly Putty. Mental transformation. Word Magic.
It's all a mass delusion. Fascinating. Amazing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-03-2014 9:30 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by edge, posted 02-04-2014 1:32 AM Faith has not replied
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Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2260 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 100 of 342 (718039)
02-03-2014 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by New Cat's Eye
02-03-2014 1:56 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
Are those few quotes all you have?
Bs'd
You can find more HERE
And the deception that those quote mines employ is outline here:
Quote Mine Project: "Lack of Identifiable Phylogeny"
Bs'd
OK, just copy and paste a few here and we'll discuss them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2014 1:56 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 11:05 PM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 123 by RAZD, posted 02-04-2014 7:57 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 101 of 342 (718040)
02-03-2014 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Eliyahu
02-03-2014 10:56 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
OK, just copy and paste a few here and we'll discuss them.
BfD
Want to discuss evidence instead?
I know creationists are big on rhetoric and apologetics, but scientists prefer to rely on evidence. You know, data!
Got any?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Eliyahu, posted 02-03-2014 10:56 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2260 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 102 of 342 (718041)
02-03-2014 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Percy
02-03-2014 2:07 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
About the part of your message from where you say "I'll say something about them" up until where you say "If you want me to say more about the fossiles, just let me know", isn't that all just unattributed cut-n-pastes from the web?
Bs'd
Yes it is. And that's because those people are all evolutionistic paleontologists or zoologists, or something like that, so they know much more about the subject than me. Therefore I quote them. If you want to know who exactly said what, then you can look HERE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Percy, posted 02-03-2014 2:07 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 11:15 PM Eliyahu has replied
 Message 121 by Percy, posted 02-04-2014 7:01 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 103 of 342 (718042)
02-03-2014 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eliyahu
02-03-2014 11:06 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
And that's because those people are all evolutionistic paleontologists or zoologists, or something like that, so they know much more about the subject than me. Therefore I quote them.
I also know a lot more about the subject than you do. That was half of my study for several years preparing for my Ph.D. exams.
And since you like quotes, you can quote me on this:
"You are wrong."
OK?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 02-03-2014 11:06 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Eliyahu, posted 02-04-2014 1:37 AM Coyote has replied

  
Eliyahu
Member (Idle past 2260 days)
Posts: 288
From: Judah
Joined: 07-23-2013


Message 104 of 342 (718043)
02-03-2014 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Coyote
02-03-2014 3:40 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
I've seen the fossil record, something you cannot claim. I studied it intensely for several years for my Ph.D. exams.
Your use of quote-mined quotations as "evidence" does not impress me.
Bs'd
So what you are trying to say is, all those big evolutionists like Gould, Eldredge, and all the others mentioned HERE, who say with one voice that the fossil record shows only STASIS, and not evolution, they are all wrong, and only you are right.
Sorry for not believing that.
There is a very simple and irrifutable proof that my quotes are right, and that is the punctuated equilibrium theory.
If the fossil record showed species turning into other species, who would need PE?
PE is a desperate attempt to give an explanation for the total lack of evolution in the fossil record.
Therefore PE says that the evolution happened very quickly in short burst, seperated by long periods of stasis, in geographically isolated regions.
And that is why we cannot find any proof for it.
Thus the evo's try to explain the fact that there is not the slightest proof for evolution in the fossil record.
But, like I said, the fossil record is totally in line with creation, and disproves evolution.
And that's just the way it is.
"It is as though they [fossils] were just planted there, without any evolutionary history. Needless to say this appearance of sudden planting has delighted creationists. .... Both schools of thought (Punctuationists and Gradualists) despise so-called scientific creationists equally, and both agree that the major gaps are real, that they are true imperfections in the fossil record. The only alternative explanation of the sudden appearance of so many complex animal types in the Cambrian era is divine creation and (we) both reject this alternative."
Richard Dawkins, The Blind Watchmaker London: W.W. Norton & Company, 1987, p. 229.
Richard Dawkins is very well known evolutionist en author and professor zoology at the Oxford university.
Yes! I am DELIGHTED by the fossile record!
HalleluJah!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 3:40 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Coyote, posted 02-03-2014 11:52 PM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 120 by Modulous, posted 02-04-2014 6:59 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 129 by RAZD, posted 02-04-2014 10:49 AM Eliyahu has not replied
 Message 131 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-04-2014 11:28 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 105 of 342 (718045)
02-03-2014 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Eliyahu
02-03-2014 11:27 PM


Re: The fossile record conclusively disproves evolution
BfD
So what you are trying to say is, all those big evolutionists like Gould, Eldredge, and all the others mentioned HERE, who say with one voice that the fossil record shows only STASIS, and not evolution, they are all wrong, and only you are right.
When you rely only on quote-mining, and have no idea of what the actual evidence says, you could come to that erroneous conclusion.
Sorry for not believing that.
There is a very simple and irrifutable proof that my quotes are right, and that is the punctuated equilibrium theory.
If the fossil record showed species turning into other species, who would need PE?
Your understanding of the PE theory, and all of evolution, is faulty.
The standard theory, before there was a lot of data either way, seemed to show a gradual progression. The PE theory suggested that in some cases evolution went in spurts. That's not such a big jump, now is it?
PE is a desperate attempt to give an explanation for the total lack of evolution in the fossil record.
Therefore PE says that the evolution happened very quickly in short burst, seperated by long periods of stasis, in geographically isolated regions.
So? Why should we believe that the pace of evolutionary change was the exact same in all places, for all species, throughout all of time? That would be pretty silly, now wouldn't it?
And that is why we cannot find any proof for it.
In science we look for evidence. Proof is left to mathematics, distilling, and photography.
Thus the evo's try to explain the fact that there is not the slightest proof for evolution in the fossil record.
But, like I said, the fossil record is totally in line with creation, and disproves evolution.
And that's just the way it is.
No, that's the way you believe it is.
What you believe and what the evidence shows are clearly widely separated.
But you go ahead and rely on rhetoric and apologetics. Just leave science alone. You are clearly unqualified to render any opinion in that field.
And just once more: your reliance on "proof," which characterizes creationists all over the world, is very telling. It shows you are ignorant of the scientific method. Here are a couple of definitions which, if you actually learned them, might make a difference:
Proof: Except for math and geometry, there is little that is actually proved. Even well-established scientific theories can't be conclusively proved, because--at least in principle--a counter-example might be discovered. Scientific theories are always accepted provisionally, and are regarded as reliable only because they are supported (not proved) by the verifiable facts they purport to explain and by the predictions which they successfully make. All scientific theories are subject to revision (or even rejection) if new data are discovered which necessitates this.
Proof: A term from logic and mathematics describing an argument from premise to conclusion using strictly logical principles. In mathematics, theorems or propositions are established by logical arguments from a set of axioms, the process of establishing a theorem being called a proof.
The colloquial meaning of "proof" causes lots of problems in physics discussion and is best avoided. Since mathematics is such an important part of physics, the mathematician's meaning of proof should be the only one we use. Also, we often ask students in upper level courses to do proofs of certain theorems of mathematical physics, and we are not asking for experimental demonstration!
So, in a laboratory report, we should not say "We proved Newton's law" Rather say, "Today we demonstrated (or verified) the validity of Newton's law in the particular case of..." Source

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Eliyahu, posted 02-03-2014 11:27 PM Eliyahu has not replied

  
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