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Member (Idle past 3597 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Anselm's Doctrine of Substitution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: But these are the stories! In googling Lucifer and perusing what Christians...as well as other beliefs state about him, he is either portrayed as hateful and jealous or as simply another spirit desiring autonomy. And once again Phat, where is your support for Lucifer's desire for autonomy, or that Lucifer wanted to be worshiped or that Lucifer wanted to not listen to a higher authority? Anselm comments: quote: My question is...where did Anselm get his ideas about who Lucifer was? Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
He made it up using his own human reasoning; he made it up to suit his own purposes.
But notice, he also provides no support for his position.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why wouldn't He? What good does worship do for Him?
Are you suggesting that God leaves the idea of worship and obligation entirely at our choice and will? Phat writes:
As Groucho Marx said, "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." I wouldn't have any respect for a God who had no expectations of me beyond obedience.
That even if we chose to become atheists and chose to look to no other higher source than ourselves that He would honor it?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
As Groucho Marx said, "I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member." I wouldn't have any respect for a God who had no expectations of me beyond obedience. OK, so what else does He expect? IF I am gonna work hard, hard enough to give away more than I need...I have a few expectations also. This relationship is a two way street.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Such as?
IF I am gonna work hard, hard enough to give away more than I need...I have a few expectations also.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Now you have me thinking.
Im getting older, and my diabetes is slowly taking its toil. I cant count on myself to work hard enough to take care of myself. There are few people out there that would hand me spare change...and it takes a lot of spare change to provide a retirement. I wonder if Anselm worried about his earthly security---nevermind his eternal security.
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's why we evolved societies. Unfortunately you live in one of the most antisocial societies on earth. You can't even count on free healthcare.
I cant count on myself to work hard enough to take care of myself.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So why don't you play Lucifer's advocate and answer those questions? How can I answer the questions honestly when it will mean I am going against God?
Sometimes taking our own path leads to us getting lost. Or hurt. If I am truly going to be assigned satan as my client, I may well warn him about reality. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
How is honesty going against God?
How can I answer the questions honestly when it will mean I am going against God? Phat writes:
Or you might get a reality check of your own.
If I am truly going to be assigned satan as my client, I may well warn him about reality.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
I thought about this.
If humans metaphorically ingested good and evil both, what would be true?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Good would also die.
If humans metaphorically ingested good and evil both, what would be true? We would die...in that evil itself will die. We have evil in us, thus death. Phat writes:
But of couse he was telling the truth. God Himself said so.
We would be like God. satan was not telling a truth, however. Phat writes:
Why would Satan or anybody else have to defend their right to exist?
Satan was defending his own right to exist.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Phat writes:
You really need to stop thinking like this - it's not helping. Why not think about something practical, something useful?
I thought about this. If humans metaphorically ingested good and evil both, what would be true? We would die...in that evil itself will die. We have evil in us, thus death.We would be like God. satan was not telling a truth, however. Satan was defending his own right to exist. death was not something to be discussed. Can't you see that this is just gibberish? It carries no meaning at all.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Why would Satan or anybody else have to defend their right to exist? Because there is only One God.... You cant defend your right to be an equal. Among humans we all are equal. Among Gods there is only One.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phat writes:
quote: Well, except that the Bible directly states that there are others. It's one of the Commandments: Thou shalt have no other gods before me. And before that, the Bible directly states that because Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge, we have become as gods, knowing good and evil.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Phat writes:
quote: But we didn't die. Adam and Eve lived on for hundreds of years after. Thus, god's statement that on the day they ate of the Tree of Knowledge they would die isn't true. God lied.
quote: But that's what the serpent said (Note: The serpent in the Garden of Eden was most decidedly NOT the devil. It was just a serpent. Remember, there is no such thing as the devil in Judaism. That would deny the primacy of god.) The serpent said that if Eve ate of the tree, she would not die but instead her eyes would be opened and she would become as god, knowing good and evil. And that's exactly what happened. The serpent told the truth. It was god who lied.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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