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Author Topic:   No genetic bottleneck proves no global flood
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 70 of 140 (720753)
02-27-2014 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tangle
02-26-2014 2:16 PM


Increase of genetic information?
Tangle writes:
What we have evidence for though is that bottlencks do not necessarily reduce gentic diversity in the long term. The main requirement for recovery is the ability to breed freely and often.
Is there a reason the term "recovery" is used all the time when referencing this?
It would seem to me that for the genetic diversity to increase, brand new "genetic diversity" would have to be created.
That is:
Let's say genetic diversity was 6.2
Then there was a bottle neck and it dopped to 1.3
Then the genetic diversity worked it's way back up to 6.2 again.
I can see the use of the word "recovery" in this sense.
But I think it's important to note (especially in context with the EvC debate) that the "recovered" genetic diversity is entirely new. It's not "getting back" the same old genetic information from before... it's entirely new genetic information. It's simply the level of diversity that's "recovered..." but brand new genetic information has been created in order for the diversity to get back to that level.
This should be rather simple to prove out as well by comparing the genetic information from before and after... if it's different, then new genetic information was obviously created. If the genetic information is exactly the same... then my idea is falsified.
There's far too much I don't understand about genetics for me to make much more progress on this and I don't like making stuff up.
I know even less than you, I'm sure. So I've probably screwed up a few terms in my post. But I hope I was able to get my idea across?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 02-26-2014 2:16 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2014 3:33 PM Stile has replied

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 101 of 140 (721075)
03-03-2014 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by RAZD
02-27-2014 3:33 PM


Re: revitalized
RAZD writes:
Good point. Perhaps "revitalized" would be better terminology -- it has the connotations of reviving a species from decline without implying return to previous diversity.
Works for me.
Thanks for the information, I was also wondering if I was understanding the concept correctly in the first place.
Are you referring to a specific metric that measures this, or just making up numbers?
The metrics I've seen seem to be normalized to numbers between zero (all genes have the same alleles throughout the population) and 1 (all genes have different alleles)
At least this applies to allelic diversity.
I was attempting to refer to the normalized numbers between zero and one... from memory... and I goofed.
I'm not so good at biological concepts...
RAZD writes:
Stile writes:
This should be rather simple to prove out as well by comparing the genetic information from before and after... if it's different, then new genetic information was obviously created. If the genetic information is exactly the same... then my idea is falsified.
There isn't a large record of before to work from at this time. With the current work on genomes this should not be as much of a problem for future studies.
Quite understandable.
Also, I doubt it's high on the priority list to test as well. Such a thing may be prominent in the EvC debate... but hardly something that requires a smoking gun in the actual science... where the smoking gun's been there for many, many years already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2014 3:33 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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