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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5308
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 376 of 381 (724114)
04-12-2014 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
03-13-2014 12:53 AM


Go pile up some sand under water, Faith, and stop
making what you imagine to be threats on the internet.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 03-13-2014 12:53 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7328
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 377 of 381 (724211)
04-14-2014 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
03-13-2014 12:53 AM


Boy, are you going to be surprised in the end.

I see that you are not brave enough to use a statement that can be tested while we are alive.

I don't know about you, but I distrust people who require me to die in order to see if they are right or not.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 03-13-2014 12:53 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10440
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 378 of 381 (827335)
01-23-2018 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by ringo
10-12-2012 3:51 PM


Rrhaining On This Parade
Stile writes:

Are you claiming that God exists somewhere else in the universe?


ringo writes:

I'm claiming that you don't "know" He doesn't.


Stile writes:

What rationally makes you think God will exist somewhere else in the universe?


ringo writes:

Not "will" exist, could exist.

Phat writes:

quote:
You cant know that something or someone is not there until you can establish where there is.

Rrhain writes:

Why? That is, why isn't "here" good enough?

Instead, all you need is a sufficiently complete definition of what you mean by "god." When your definition is so vague that it doesn't actually say anything, then can it even be said to exist?

But with regard to the North Pole and Santa, it's called "magic." That's the same claim that every theist has ever claimed regarding their god as to why it can't be detected where it is claimed to exist.

So if that's not acceptable with regard to Santa, why does it suddenly become legitimate for god?

One notable attribute of believers in God vs Santa is that most of the God believers are otherwise rational adults.
If challenged to support their beliefs, some would honestly admit that they could not. Others would attempt an elaborate apologetic defense, followed by an attitude of selective magic which enabled them to know and understand a person heretofore unknown to others.

My fascination is with the latter group. They are, after all, not delusional. Why is it that they defend this belief in which they have so vehemently invested?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 10-12-2012 3:51 PM ringo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2018 3:29 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 381 by Rrhain, posted 01-23-2018 7:59 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5333
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 379 of 381 (827336)
01-23-2018 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
01-23-2018 3:15 AM


Re: Rrhaining On This Parade
Phat writes:

One notable attribute of believers in God vs Santa is that most of the God believers are otherwise rational adults.

People are complex. They are quite capable of holding contradictory ideas and beliefs without breaking their minds. Belief in god(s) is bounded irrationality, it doesn't have to corrupt the rest of a persons thinking but you don't have to look very far on these boards to see that it often does.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 01-23-2018 3:15 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Pressie, posted 01-23-2018 6:09 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 1875
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 380 of 381 (827342)
01-23-2018 6:09 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Tangle
01-23-2018 3:29 AM


Re: Rrhaining On This Parade
Tangle writes:

People are complex. They are quite capable of holding contradictory ideas and beliefs without breaking their minds. Belief in god(s) is bounded irrationality, it doesn't have to corrupt the rest of a persons thinking but you don't have to look very far on these boards to see that it often does.

I completely agree. One example I found on this board was a person who tried to convince people that slavery was not really slavery in Biblical times. And the same person called anti-slavery people uneducated.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Tangle, posted 01-23-2018 3:29 AM Tangle has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6245
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 381 of 381 (827423)
01-23-2018 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
01-23-2018 3:15 AM


Re: Rrhaining On This Parade
Phat responds to me:

quote:
One notable attribute of believers in God vs Santa is that most of the God believers are otherwise rational adults.

Are they?

Just because two million people do a dumb thing, it's still a dumb thing.

Being rational is a difficult thing to be. Most of our decisions aren't made in contradiction to our emotional desires, especially the ones that we have created with regard to our existence as human beings. It's when push comes to shove that the test of "rationality" is really made and it is very difficult to reject your own self.

quote:
My fascination is with the latter group. They are, after all, not delusional. Why is it that they defend this belief in which they have so vehemently invested?

Again, you're assuming facts not in evidence. Belief in something that has no evidence for existing and, in fact, quite a lot of evidence against (given their own definition) is something that could "rationally" be called "delusional."

Let's not pretend that this is an all-or-nothing thing; that being delusional means that every action made or thought expressed runs counter to reality. Delusional people regularly make "rational" decisions such as not crossing the street when the traffic is going. In fact, some people are quite successful despite their delusions (see the typical bigot.) Some people make quite a living feeding those delusions (again, see the typical bigot-monger.)

But as to why, you answered your own question: They're invested. They have emotionally invested themselves in this and thus will not give it up lightly. People do this all the time. It's why people think their loved ones can't have done the things they did, even when shown direct evidence that they did. So if you have an emotional investment in your "immortal soul," you're not going to give up the idea of not going to hell with any ease.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 01-23-2018 3:15 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
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