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Author Topic:   Semiotic argument for ID
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 133 of 223 (725174)
04-24-2014 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Dr Adequate
04-24-2014 3:01 PM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
DA writes:
But perhaps you will use this different term to mean a different thing. We'll see.
Nope. Specified Complexity will do. It's easier to type, anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 3:01 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 134 of 223 (725175)
04-24-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Dr Adequate
04-24-2014 3:09 PM


Re: CS on CSI
DA writes:
A little common sense would tell him that the Earth is flat.
I take it you DISAGREE that it takes intelligence to create a system that runs without intelligence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 3:09 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 138 of 223 (725180)
04-24-2014 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by New Cat's Eye
04-24-2014 11:28 AM


Re: Articles of Faith
CS writes:
"complex specified information" is a term in the English language understandable by English speakers.
What makes it information? How is it specified? And at what point does it get to be considered complex?
Okay, we'll start by going to the online dictionary and looking each word up.
COMPLEX:
quote:
adjective
1.
composed of many interconnected parts; compound; composite: a complex highway system.
2.
characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts, units, etc.: complex machinery.

3.
so complicated or intricate as to be hard to understand or deal with: a complex problem.
4.
Grammar .
a.
(of a word) consisting of two parts, at least one of which is a bound form, as childish, which consists of the word child and the bound form -ish.
b.
complex sentence.
5.
Mathematics . pertaining to or using complex numbers: complex methods; complex vector space.
I would pick definition 2 for this case, what do you think?

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 143 of 223 (725192)
04-24-2014 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by New Cat's Eye
04-24-2014 3:41 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
2. SPECIFIC:
quote:
adjective
1.
having a special application, bearing, or reference; specifying, explicit, or definite: to state one's specific purpose.
2.
specified, precise, or particular: a specific sum of money.
3.
peculiar or proper to somebody or something, as qualities, characteristics, effects, etc.: His specific problems got him into trouble.
4.
of a special or particular kind.
5.
concerned specifically with the item or subject named (used in combination): The Secretary addressed himself to crop-specific problems.
I'd say the first definition is appropriate, having a special APPLICATION.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 144 of 223 (725193)
04-24-2014 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by New Cat's Eye
04-24-2014 3:41 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
3. INFORMATION:
quote:
noun
1.
knowledge communicated or received concerning a particular fact or circumstance; news: information concerning a crime.
2.
knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
3.
the act or fact of informing.
4.
an office, station, service, or employee whose function is to provide information to the public: The ticket seller said to ask information for a timetable.
5.
Directory Assistance.
I'd say number 2 applies here; it's factual data, and it's communicated to the cell by the nucleotide code.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 150 of 223 (725205)
04-24-2014 5:52 PM


Complex Specified Information

I didn't expect any of the gang to get it. This is the part that requires common sense.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 151 of 223 (725207)
04-24-2014 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Ed67
04-24-2014 4:25 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
ed writes:
. INFORMATION:
2.
knowledge gained through study, communication, research, instruction, etc.; factual data: His wealth of general information is amazing.
quote:
James Watson and Francis Crick's insight that genetic INFORMATION is embedded in the physical structure of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA)
. EvC Forum: Information
That one's a given.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 152 of 223 (725208)
04-24-2014 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Ed67
04-24-2014 4:20 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
ed writes:
2. SPECIFIC:
quote:
adjective
1.
having a special application, bearing, or reference; specifying, explicit, or definite: to state one's specific purpose.
quote:
Watson and Crick were the first to realize that the seemingly random sequence of the four bases in DNA formed a code which specified the order of the twenty amino acids that make up most proteins
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/...trieve/Narrative/SC/p-nid/153
Another given...
So so far we have the INFORMATION and SPECIFIED parts confirmed by the discoverers and researchers of the DNA code. How about COMPLEX?

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 153 of 223 (725209)
04-24-2014 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:25 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
ed writes:
COMPLEX:
2.
characterized by a very complicated or involved arrangement of parts, units, etc.: complex machinery.
Well, DNA doesn't have machinery, per se, so that part of the definition doesn't apply.
But it DOES have a very "complicated or involved' arrangement of "units" in the nucleotide sequence, so it qualifies as COMPLEX.
There you go, gang, all you need to admit that, by the english definitions of the terms, the DNA molecule contains COMPLEX SPECIFIED INFORMATION.
Now I'll stop using the term, on DA's request.
Unless, of course, someone ELSE brings it up...

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Replies to this message:
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 160 of 223 (725222)
04-24-2014 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by frako
04-24-2014 6:19 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
frako writes:
Yea its the same information as a mould has, to make moulded objects.
Yes, and the information in the mould was put there by an intelligent designer.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 161 of 223 (725223)
04-24-2014 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Dr Adequate
04-24-2014 6:31 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
DA writes:
But it DOES have a very "complicated or involved' arrangement of "units" in the nucleotide sequence
No it doesn't.
Go back to high school. This is REALLY basic stuff

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 6:31 PM Dr Adequate has replied

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 162 of 223 (725224)
04-24-2014 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Theodoric
04-24-2014 6:30 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
Theo writes:
Woooo,
Two of the three words were used by the author of the piece. That must mean, must mean...absofuckinglutely nothing.
Do you really think Watson and Crick would support CSI?
Watson is still alive. Why don't you ask him?
Before you embarrass yourself more.
quote:
"The easiest way to believe in the theory of intelligent design is to never go to school," he said.
sore loser

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 164 of 223 (725227)
04-24-2014 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by subbie
04-24-2014 8:06 PM


Re: Articles of Faith
subbie writes:
Can you explain why you see something in DNA that James Watson doesn't?
Can you explain why you can't see what Watson and Crick saw?

This message is a reply to:
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 168 of 223 (725234)
04-24-2014 11:11 PM


The plain truth about the function of DNA
Since it appears many of you missed high school biology class, here is another summary of the function of DNA:
quote:
The information in DNA is stored as a code made up of four chemical bases: adenine (A), guanine (G), cytosine (C), and thymine (T). Human DNA consists of about 3 billion bases, and more than 99 percent of those bases are the same in all people. The order, or sequence, of these bases determines the information available for building and maintaining an organism, similar to the way in which letters of the alphabet appear in a certain order to form words and sentences.
MedlinePlus: Genetics
-notice how even the URL calls it BASICS.
So it's common knowledge among the scientifically literate that DNA is the medium through which a COMPLEX, SPECIFIED CODE conveys the instructions necessary to build and maintain an organism.

Replies to this message:
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3328 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 169 of 223 (725235)
04-24-2014 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:11 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
quote:
DNA's code is written in only four 'letters', called A, C, T and G. The meaning of this code lies in the sequence of the letters A, T, C and G in the same way that the meaning of a word lies in the sequence of alphabet letters. Your cells read the DNA sequence to make chemicals that your body needs to survive.
Not found – YourGenome
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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