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Author Topic:   Semiotic argument for ID
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 170 of 223 (725236)
04-24-2014 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:16 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
quote:
Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.
Scientists discover double meaning in genetic code | UW News
I think that qualifies as complex specified information.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:16 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:31 PM Ed67 has not replied
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 171 of 223 (725237)
04-24-2014 11:31 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Ed67
04-24-2014 11:20 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
quote:
The genetic code by which DNA stores the genetic information consists of "codons" of three nucleotides. The functional segments of DNA which code for the transfer of genetic information are called genes. With four possible bases, the three nucleotides can give 43 = 64 different possibilities, and these combinations are used to specify the 20 different amino acids used by living organisms.
The ribonucleic acid (RNA) that is directly involved in the transcription of the pattern of bases from the DNA to provide a blueprint for the construction of proteins is called messenger RNA or typically mRNA. The pattern for protein synthesis is then read and translated into the language of amino acids for protein construction with the help of transfer RNA or tRNA.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/...organic/gencode.html
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:20 PM Ed67 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by frako, posted 04-25-2014 3:26 PM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 176 of 223 (725266)
04-25-2014 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by Dr Adequate
04-24-2014 11:42 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
please see Message 170

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 11:42 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by JonF, posted 04-25-2014 8:26 AM Ed67 has not replied
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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 183 of 223 (725345)
04-25-2014 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by frako
04-25-2014 3:26 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
frako writes:
The word code , and information on that link are used so people like you can have an easier grasp at what's going on. Not because its a code that says build a protein like this, its just chemical reactions if you claim those are because of some code then so must be all the rest. And we live in a matrix like universe.

And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?
quote:
Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.
Scientists discover double meaning in genetic code | UW News
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by frako, posted 04-25-2014 3:26 PM frako has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by subbie, posted 04-26-2014 12:10 AM Ed67 has not replied
 Message 189 by JonF, posted 04-26-2014 10:20 AM Ed67 has replied
 Message 191 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 2:32 PM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 187 of 223 (725354)
04-26-2014 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Larni
04-26-2014 6:59 AM


Re: I agree - same old argument, different name
Larni writes:
Could define in your own words what CSI is, please? The implication I'm getting from poster is that you cannot do so and I would like to see you prove them wrong.
All the best.
As I've already explained, I don't invoke any special meaning by using the term. I simply mean information which is complex and specified. I've already walked you through the definitions of the terms. Any implication that I have not done so is false.
Try to keep up, please.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Larni, posted 04-26-2014 6:59 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by RAZD, posted 04-26-2014 9:08 AM Ed67 has replied
 Message 190 by JonF, posted 04-26-2014 10:25 AM Ed67 has replied
 Message 193 by Larni, posted 04-26-2014 6:29 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 194 of 223 (725402)
04-26-2014 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Capt Stormfield
04-26-2014 2:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
THIS is priceless
Capt writes:
And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?
quote:Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.
Page not found | University of Washington
You really and truly should try to understand 2 simple ideas: metaphor and equivocation. Your apparent inability to recognize either of these concepts in the wild is causing you to look like a troll.
Ok, , let me get this straight:

You claim that the researchers at the University of Washington were METAPHORICALLY EQUIVOCATING
when they wrote their papers about their recent research findings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 2:32 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 11:25 PM Ed67 has replied
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 9:46 AM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 196 of 223 (725429)
04-27-2014 3:44 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Capt Stormfield
04-26-2014 11:25 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Capt writes:
The researchers... are using metaphor when they describe DNA as a code.
You want to try backing that up with FACT?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 11:25 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 11:23 AM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 200 of 223 (725456)
04-27-2014 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Capt Stormfield
04-26-2014 11:25 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
The researchers, like all scientists, are using metaphor when they describe DNA as a code.
Researchers are big boys and can speak for themselves. If they mean 'metaphorical code' they will say it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-26-2014 11:25 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 12:56 PM Ed67 has replied
 Message 209 by Omnivorous, posted 04-27-2014 3:16 PM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 201 of 223 (725457)
04-27-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by AZPaul3
04-27-2014 9:46 AM


Re: Ed67 buys the hype. Goes nuts
AZ writes:
No "second code". The "second code" hype was courtesy of UofW's public relations office (think marketing folks). As usual, the weak minded press jumped at the hype.
so you think that we shouldn't listen to science reporting
but we should listen to you instead.
You flatter yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 9:46 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 203 of 223 (725459)
04-27-2014 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Capt Stormfield
04-27-2014 11:23 AM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Capt writes:
Capt writes:
The researchers... are using metaphor when they describe DNA as a code.
You want to try backing that up with FACT?
...
Sure. I'll give you 2 facts:
1 - I am a native English speaker. I understand these things.
2 - You have avoided every question asking you to explain your claim that there is a difference between the chemistry of DNA and chemistry that doesn't contain a code. That is internet code for "I'm not honest".
So you prefer to launch a personal attack on my honesty rather than present FACTS to back up your assertion.
Typical Darwinist hubris...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 11:23 AM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 1:02 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 205 of 223 (725462)
04-27-2014 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Capt Stormfield
04-27-2014 12:56 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Capt writes:
Researchers are big boys and can speak for themselves. If they mean 'metaphorical code' they will say it.
So how does the DNA hold the pen when it "writes" the code?What kind of ink does it use?
The DNA didn't write the code, the intelligent designer of life wrote the code in the DNA at the creation of life.
Capt writes:
After all, if the authors meant "write in a metaphoric sense" they would say that, wouldn't they?
Yes, they would. And in your word salad, you forgot to include the facts that support your statement.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 12:56 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 1:15 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 208 of 223 (725470)
04-27-2014 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by AZPaul3
04-27-2014 9:46 AM


AZPaul3 Reveals Contreversy in the Darwinian Camp
your first link writes:
Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1950s, scientists have continued to find additional layers of complexity in the regulation of how genes are transcribed to make proteins. The current study from UW scientists have added additional knowledge to this growing field.
-Repeat after me: There is no newly discovered hidden code in DNA. | by Matt Russell, Ph.D. | Science for All | Medium.
You can keep the hype. it's enough that the author freely admitted the above.
He confirms that 'additional layers of complexity' have been found, and that the UW scientists have added 'additional knowledge to this growing field'.
So your claim "there is no second code!" is all hype.
You might try reading the WHOLE article before making such outrageous accusations against a university's researchers and writers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 9:46 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 3:37 PM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 210 of 223 (725473)
04-27-2014 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by AZPaul3
04-27-2014 9:46 AM


Re: Ed67 buys the hype. Goes nuts
your second link writes:
The release also contains gems such as The genetic code uses a 64-letter alphabet called codons. This sentence makes me sad...
Your smart-pants 'contributor' thinks she knows better than to use literary terms to describe the codon...
yet in the SAME PARAGRAPH, gloating after showing up a research scientist, she gets a little too 'wordy' for her own good (pardon the pun):
your second link writes:
...Some amino acids get more than one word to designate them.
so, which one is it, you CAN use literary language in describing the genetic code, or you CAN'T.
Either way, this contributor is screwed.
Sad to say, many of my opponents here have adopted the same tactics of EQUIVOCATING.
Good luck with that.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.
Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 9:46 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 212 of 223 (725476)
04-27-2014 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Omnivorous
04-27-2014 3:16 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
[qs]
Ed writes:
If they mean 'metaphorical code' they will say it.
I noticed that. Every time I encounter metaphorical language in English, hey, there it is! A big fat red METAPHOR printed right next to it!
Thank God, huh? Otherwise some folks could [color=red]METAPHOR[/color=red] make asses of themselves.[/qs]
Hey, buddy, if your only contribution is to INSULT, you're better off waiting to comment until you have something INTELLIGENT to say.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Omnivorous, posted 04-27-2014 3:16 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Omnivorous, posted 04-27-2014 4:13 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 213 of 223 (725477)
04-27-2014 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Capt Stormfield
04-27-2014 3:37 PM


Re: AZPaul3 Reveals Contreversy in the Darwinian Camp
Capt writes:
You might try reading the WHOLE article...
Wise words. You might consider reading the abstract of the paper itself instead of just the PR fluff about the paper.
"Genomes contain both a genetic code specifying amino acids and a regulatory code specifying transcription factor (TF) recognition sequences. We used genomic deoxyribonuclease I footprinting to map nucleotide resolution TF occupancy across the human exome in 81 diverse cell types. We found that ~15% of human codons are dual-use codons (duons) that simultaneously specify both amino acids and TF recognition sites. Duons are highly conserved and have shaped protein evolution, and TF-imposed constraint appears to be a major driver of codon usage bias. Conversely, the regulatory code has been selectively depleted of TFs that recognize stop codons. More than 17% of single-nucleotide variants within duons directly alter TF binding. Pervasive dual encoding of amino acid and regulatory information appears to be a fundamental feature of genome evolution."
They seem to have left out the part about the "code" being designed.
Actually, Capt, I already quoted this paragraph from the abstract on this thread or the other one on this topic. When I did, I did NOT claim that the researchers believed the two codes in the genome to be DESIGNED. So where did you get that idea?
You are throwing useless RED HERRINGS into the discussion in an attempt to harass me. Any more of this an I will be reporting this to the administrators.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 3:37 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 6:59 PM Ed67 has not replied
 Message 218 by AZPaul3, posted 04-27-2014 8:14 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
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