EvC Forum: Salvation vs. Helping Others

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Topic: Salvation vs. Helping Others

Phat

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From: Denver,Colorado USA

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Message 20 of 30 (729597)
06-15-2014 7:56 AM

Reply to: Message 15 by Stile
02-17-2010 12:39 PM

Re: So, North or South?

Stile,responding to Peg writes:

It's not about who you'd rather visit. The question is about who do you think requires more help. That is, do you think it's more important to help someone to become a nice person, or do you think it's more important to help someone gain knowledge of Jesus Christ.

From your answer I would guess that you would visit the guy who knows lots about Jesus, but isn't a very nice person. That way, you could inform him of how to be a better person.

But your answer also said that the two were equivalent. In which case, it's sort of a non-answer. I understand that "knowing Jesus Christ" can be similar to "being a good person". What I'm trying to show is that drawing this similarity too far can bring about confusing issues.

The point of the question is to show the slight-difference in priorities.

If you first go to see the nice-guy-who-doesn't-know-Jesus-Christ, then you'd put a slight-priority on "knowing Jesus Christ" as opposed to being a good person.

If you first go to see the guy-who-knows-Jesus-Christ-but-never-helps-others-anyway, then you'd put a slight-priority on being a good person rather than "knowing Jesus Christ."

In light of our more recent conversations, I think that I would always put the priority on sharing Jesus Christ. The point that we are making is that the guy who claims to know Jesus does not, in actuality know Him.

The good news, Mr.Stile, is that people such as you who would rather just do what is "written on their heart" may be closer to knowing Jesus than many religious folk. Even though you don't slang Him, you slang love...which is the same thing, in an agape sort of way.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 15 by Stile, posted 02-17-2010 12:39 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 21 by Stile, posted 06-15-2014 12:59 PM		Phat has seen this message but not replied

Phat

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Posts: 18292

From: Denver,Colorado USA

Joined: 12-30-2003

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Message 25 of 30 (729734)
06-18-2014 1:18 AM

Reply to: Message 17 by Stile
02-18-2010 10:56 AM

Faith and Reason

Stile writes:

How do you not find your reasoning to be your ultimate guide?
Even if you're accepting what you think is God's plan as your ultimate guide... you're still using your reasoning to make that acceptance.

No. You are using your faith. Abraham never would have sacrificed his son Isaac based on what reasoning told him.

How can someone make any sort of decision (action or guide) without using their reasoning?

Faith and Reason

quote:
Reason generally is understood as the principles for a methodological inquiry, whether intellectual, moral, aesthetic, or religious. Thus is it not simply the rules of logical inference or the embodied wisdom of a tradition or authority. Some kind of algorithmic demonstrability is ordinarily presupposed. Once demonstrated, a proposition or claim is ordinarily understood to be justified as true or authoritative. Faith, on the other hand, involves a stance toward some claim that is not, at least presently, demonstrable by reason.

Some folks have no faith. They need evidence and rational proof. Others thrive on faith and uncertainty.

When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 17 by Stile, posted 02-18-2010 10:56 AM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 26 by Stile, posted 06-18-2014 8:35 AM	Phat has seen this message but not replied
	Message 29 by Faith, posted 06-19-2014 5:31 PM	Phat has seen this message but not replied

Phat

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Posts: 18292

From: Denver,Colorado USA

Joined: 12-30-2003

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Message 30 of 30 (821554)
10-09-2017 11:21 AM

Reply to: Message 28 by Stile
06-19-2014 3:55 PM

Salvation vs Helping Others Remix

Stile writes:

The point is to watch yourself being selfless vs. being selfish... not being born again or not... that obviously has no impact on the population in general.

I am not born again.
I do not have those attitudes.
I don't know if I'm "just an animal" or not (and I don't really care).
My spirit is definitely not switched off, it's quite healthy.

What does this mean?
Does this mean you are wrong... that being "born again" just isn't required?
Or maybe God smiles upon me without me knowing or being able to identify it in any way? Maybe "being filled with the Holy Spirit" isn't as electrifying as people say it is... maybe it's happened to me and I simply do not notice because it's just as normal as any other day?

Sometimes when reading the archives I come across a gem of a statement. Stile, your replied to MTW well. Ya done good.

Thanks for giving me another perspective, as usual.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
	Message 28 by Stile, posted 06-19-2014 3:55 PM		Stile has seen this message but not replied

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