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Author Topic:   Why did God forgive our sins?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 405 of 479 (729601)
06-15-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
06-14-2014 10:39 AM


Re: The Freewill Defense
I believe that God created a free willed Lucifer, initially. Lucifer than chose...with Gods full awareness...to rebel and thus became satan by definition. Pure unadulterated evil. Thus God indirectly created evil...through the allowable rebellion of an angel. Having created the possibility of evil which became actualized evil after Lucifers decision, We can agree that God created evil. What is not agreed upon is the idea that Gods foreknowledge is itself evil. In fact, this sounds like an argument that a fallen spirit would make so as to gain the sympathies of humans.
If one believes that god is omniscient, then one has to acknowledge that god had to have foreknowledge of the eventual events that would transpire to create satan. Unless your definition of god is somewhat different.
God never created hell for humans. God created hell as a place for fallen angels.
But clearly Christian doctrine dictates that humans can and do go to hell. And god created the conditions for this arrangement. So clearly, god is involved.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 06-14-2014 10:39 AM Phat has replied

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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 409 of 479 (729637)
06-16-2014 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by Phat
06-16-2014 3:43 AM


Re: The Freewill Defense
We are responsible for how we interact with them...particularly the sharks. Regardless of how they were created or Who created them
So god created an obstacle course for us and it is up to us to avoid the nasty things? That's brilliant.
In addition, humans made bacteria worse through abusing and not fully understanding the ramifications of antibiotics--something we created.
Say WHAT?!
Do you know about the Bubonic Plague? Or the Black Death as it was known in the Middle Ages? It was a bacterial infection and was responsible for killing between 30-60% of Europe's population. This was in a time LONG before antibiotics.
Now: who precisely created the Bubonic Plague Enterobacteriaceae? It certainly wasn't satan.
People need to stop blaming God for evil and instead accept that we are responsible to avoid it. It may well be that evil was created to tempt us. (temper us...as iron---being tempered---becomes steel. Humans, when tempered(tempted) become stronger also.
Or, people need to acknowledge that the concept is entirely silly and leads credence to the notion that there is no god.
And once again, the god you are describing if akin to some sick, deranged individual using their power to toy with others.
Edited by Diomedes, : Fixed minor typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 3:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by Phat, posted 06-16-2014 11:02 AM Diomedes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 996
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 417 of 479 (729657)
06-16-2014 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Phat
06-16-2014 11:02 AM


Re: The Freewill Defense
Its also silly to deify humans
Isn't that what the Council of Nicea did when they deified Jesus?
Humanity will NEVER become godlike and understand this universe
True and false. Humanity will never become godlike because gods don't exist. In the same way we will never become Orc-like or Fairy-like.
But when it comes to understanding the universe, we actually know quite a bit.
we still kill each other and are greedy manipulative bastards
And so is god, according the bible. Sodom and Gomorrah, the Great Flood, first born of Israel. Etc. Not sure what point you are making here.
You may think that God is a silly concept and product of human imagination, whereas I believe that He imagined(created) us long before we could do much more than climb trees and eat bananas...thus we are a product of His imagination.
You are entitled to any belief you like. Tom Cruise thinks he needs to hook himself up to a car battery every day to cleanse his spirit of body thetans, which are the left over souls of dead aliens.
Too many people only know God as a character in a book or a story told round a campfire. Too few people have actually met Him.
I don't think anyone has met him. And those that claim they have are either delusional or crafty scam artists.
OK...if a Creator of all seen and unseen existed, how would YOU choose to define Him? How would you relate to humanity? What would you expect out of them? How would you use your power to interact with people?
First off, I would set conditions: how does he manifest himself? What are his key characteristics? Is there only one of them? What experiments can I devise that would shed light on his/her nature?
Point being: the evidence should lead to the conclusion. Not the other way around.

"Our future lies not in our dogmatic past, but in our enlightened present"

This message is a reply to:
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