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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 343 of 1498 (730526)
06-28-2014 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by OS
06-28-2014 6:15 PM


Ar-39, Ar-41, and Ar-42 can decay into potassium isotopes of the same number.
Which implies nothing at all about Ar40. It turns out that Ar40 is composed of exactly the same nucleons as in 10 alpha particles. As a general rule, the lower weight nuclei composed in such a way are unusually stable isotopes. Examples C12, N14, O16 and Neon 20 are all stable. Above a certain atomic number, electrostatic repulsive forces become too great and more neutrons are needed to produce other forces to make a stable nucleus.
What you are telling me is that because you know next to nothing about nuclear physics, you are free to intuit rules that turn out not to work.
Yet there are also other issues like water, and that you can't carbon date any corpse accurately.
Not going to accept that on just your say so. You haven't been right about much yet.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by OS, posted 06-28-2014 6:15 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by OS, posted 06-28-2014 6:56 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 346 of 1498 (730529)
06-28-2014 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by OS
06-28-2014 6:19 PM


Re: so lets discuss reality then: step 1 --
Quit lying that it is a science. 2. Quite pretending it is used to calibrate lambda for Radiocarbon Dating.
The first statement I will take as a statement of your opinion. Although I disagree with it and know that you are wrong, I won't take that on.
The second statement simply shows your ignorance of the topic. No one has made the claim that the half life of C14 needs to be or is calibrated. While all radioactive determinations are based on knowing radioactive half life, we all know that knowing that value alone is not sufficient to use radiometric dating. Everyone participating in this discussion, with the possible exception of you, but in particular including RAZD, and including everyone who is serious about objecting to C-14 dating knows why such dates are calibrated.
I look forward to the post in which you are right about something significant and relevant.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by OS, posted 06-28-2014 6:19 PM OS has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 347 of 1498 (730530)
06-28-2014 7:08 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by OS
06-28-2014 6:56 PM


But what do cold temperatures do to those forces? Extreme cold makes metal brittle, for example.
The structures that determine the physical properties of materials are generated by the orbital electrons and the motions of the atoms in a material. The motions of atoms are directly affected by temperature.
The forces that determine decay rates, with some exceptions that are not relevant for this discussion, are intra-nuclear and have nothing to do with the motions of the atoms. Accordingly the temperature does not affect the operation of spontaneous nuclear reactions like decay.
Again this is something that has been verified by experiment and discussed to death here. I'll point out the past discussion if you are really interested.
To answer the question you actually asked. Electrostatic forces, gravitational forces, and the weak and strong forces are not affected by temperatures likely to have existed after the formation of the solar system.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by OS, posted 06-28-2014 6:56 PM OS has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 369 of 1498 (730558)
06-28-2014 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Coyote
06-28-2014 8:57 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
Further, my guess is that virtually your entire (un)knowledge of the radiocarbon method comes from creationist websites.
Coyote, I don't see how he could have gotten this stuff from creationist websites except by misreading them. He is even further from the mark than all but the silliest of the Creationist web sites. In fact OS is just about the one of those rare people who might actually learn something about radiometric dating by visiting AIG or ICR.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Coyote, posted 06-28-2014 8:57 PM Coyote has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 370 of 1498 (730559)
06-28-2014 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by OS
06-28-2014 9:14 PM


Re: Tree rings and reality
No, my knowledge about it comes from a medical pdf, and some physics stuff which is in depth enough. I know that the human body actively expels Carbon-14
The human body does not distinguish between C-14 and C-12. Processes which expel one, expel the other. Dead things, in general, don't have significant biological processes.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by OS, posted 06-28-2014 9:14 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 1:16 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 373 of 1498 (730562)
06-29-2014 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by OS
06-29-2014 1:16 AM


Re: Tree rings and reality
NoNukes writes:
he human body does not distinguish between C-14 and C-12.
OS writes:
Only in that, it doesn't seem to get rid of Carbon-14; I am glad I can't find that PDF, because it makes arguing how it is poisonous easier.
Not even in that respect. Chemically, isotopes are identical.
But you are glad you cannot find your reference? I guess that does free you up a bit when you want to take nonsense positions.
Then there is the issue of 12,000 years and everything has decayed. Exponential decay exaggerates a lot of ages. Linear decay would be a better approach.
That does it. Surely you are a Poe.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 1:16 AM OS has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 401 of 1498 (730624)
06-29-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by OS
06-29-2014 12:13 PM


Ar-40 is a stable isotope. I don't think it would be stupid to try, but it would be complicated, an it might not be as successful as with other Argon isotopes.
If you bombared Ar40 with protons, what isotope would you expect to produce? Hint: not K40.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 12:13 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 1:41 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 403 of 1498 (730679)
06-29-2014 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by OS
06-29-2014 1:41 PM


Edit: nope 41K is the isotope alone
Okay.
But let's assume instead that a proton involvement was possible and that it would reverse the decay of 40K. What would be the effect of such a bombardment on radiometric dating? Would testing without knowing about the bombardment produce dates that are too high or too low?
And my final question? So what's your point?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 402 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 1:41 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 404 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:25 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 413 of 1498 (730704)
06-29-2014 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by OS
06-29-2014 7:25 PM


So the only thing I can say, and it goes against conventional understanding, is that 40K/40Ar decay requires a neutron and the expulsion of a proton.
Radioactive decay is a spontaneous reaction. Decay does not require anything except the parent nuclei and the passage of time.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:25 PM OS has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 466 of 1498 (755735)
04-11-2015 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by OS
04-11-2015 1:12 AM


Re: OS and tree rings
You know what they say about the words assume and assumptions.
Your posts here discredit yourself. You know absolutely nothing worth sharing about either carbon dating or dendrochronology. Nothing wrong with that. Except that you insist on posting about them anyway.
Just a few hints to consider: Geiger counters are absolutely not used for doing C-14 or indeed any other kind of radiometric dating. So every time you mention the instrument, you are essentially screaming "I know diddly squat".
The best way for you to discredit something is for you to endorse it.
ABE:
After further review, I find that we explained to you once before how radiometric dating is done, (See here Message 129)and you are still babbling about geiger counters 10 months later. What is the point in discussing stuff with you?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by OS, posted 04-11-2015 1:12 AM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by OS, posted 04-11-2015 3:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(3)
Message 468 of 1498 (755762)
04-11-2015 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 467 by Capt Stormfield
04-11-2015 7:17 AM


Re: OS and tree rings
Sometimes you have to wonder if people aren't spending at bit too much time indoors.
Thanks for the reminder. I'm going out on the porch with my tablet. .

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-11-2015 7:17 AM Capt Stormfield has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 476 of 1498 (755805)
04-11-2015 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 470 by OS
04-11-2015 3:20 PM


Re: OS and tree rings
NUCLEAR SPECTROSCOPY. Now that makes a lot more sense, and it explains why nuclear decay is based on a thermodynamic equation.
Do tell. Which thermodynamic equation would that be?
Radioactivity decreases evenly as you go down the earth's crust?
No.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by OS, posted 04-11-2015 3:20 PM OS has not replied

  
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