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Author Topic:   Artificial Selection - Is the term simply convenient?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 14 of 37 (735902)
08-27-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by AppleScratch
08-27-2014 12:51 PM


Well, perhaps the terminology is not what it should be, but the distinction is scientifically important. If you wanted different terminology you could call them intelligent and unintelligent selection. Now it is clear that intelligent selection can do things that unintelligent selection cannot. We can explain the legless dogs of your example on account of human whims; legless snakes cannot be explained by a whim of nature, but must be explained in terms of functionality. When we wish to test the theory that things in nature are the product of unintelligent ("natural") selection acting on variation, we are testing a stronger --- more precise and more demanding --- thesis than if we just asked whether it was all produced by some kind of selection, no matter what.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 37 (735916)
08-27-2014 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by AppleScratch
08-27-2014 5:47 PM


Re: Missing the Real Issue
Would humans hunting a predator to extinction be considered Artificial Selection by your definitions? We determine with our foresight that this species poses a threat to our lives, and become a tremendous selective pressure against it.
This example seems more mundane than proactively selecting crop traits that make cultivation easier. I feel less tempted to claim it as special or artificial, but don't know why in any scientifically justifiable way.
Well in that case we're not selecting which ones to kill and which ones not to kill in order with the intention of producing a new type.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 23 of 37 (735927)
08-27-2014 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AppleScratch
08-27-2014 6:24 PM


Re: Missing the Real Issue
Well the difference is that what you're doing in the first case, though it's certainly artificial, isn't selection. You're not picking and choosing among the sheep, or among the wolves.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 25 of 37 (735929)
08-27-2014 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by AppleScratch
08-27-2014 8:05 PM


Re: Missing the Real Issue
Selection, in the biological sense, involves choosing among the members of a population, not between two whole species only distantly related.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 31 of 37 (735941)
08-28-2014 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by AppleScratch
08-27-2014 8:55 PM


Re: Missing the Real Issue
Well, I'd have said that it was the differential reproductive success of the members of a population based on their traits. If this is because someone is picking and choosing which members survive and reproduce, that's artificial selection, if it just happens because some traits are more conducive to survival and reproduction, that's natural selection.

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