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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 226 of 2241 (738539)
10-11-2014 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Faith
10-11-2014 3:56 PM


Re: Truth?
A Bible does not exist until after a Canon list the books to be included.
There is still no universally accepted Canon.
Sorry Faith but that is reality and the TRUTH.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 3:56 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 8:12 PM jar has replied
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:42 PM jar has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 227 of 2241 (738540)
10-11-2014 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Phat
10-11-2014 11:56 AM


Re: 3 in one
I don't give a rats ass what people think of my beliefs. I think you will find that many agnostics and atheists have similar thoughts. It seems only the religious feel threatened and have a need to constantly have their beliefs validated. I wonder why that is.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Phat, posted 10-11-2014 11:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 228 of 2241 (738541)
10-11-2014 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
10-11-2014 11:58 AM


Re: 3 in one
Understand the truth through the truth? A bit circular don't you think.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 10-11-2014 11:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 229 of 2241 (738542)
10-11-2014 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
10-11-2014 2:50 PM


Re: 3 in one
Your god is a person? No wonder you religion is so weak and persecuted. Get a real god like Odin, Zeus or Allah. Now those are real gods. No namby pamby people there.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 230 of 2241 (738545)
10-11-2014 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by jar
10-11-2014 4:09 PM


Re: Truth?
A Bible does not exist until after a Canon list the books to be included.
'The Bible' cannot exist without a Canon. That much is true. But that lack of agreement did not stop anyone from developing scriptural doctrine from the available scriptures. And we know for a fact that people did exactly that well prior to canonization.
By and large the disagreement with Trinitarians is not about the choice of the books in the Bible. Instead it is primarily about the interpretation of scriptures essentially every protestant believes are legitimate scripture. Not saying there are no issues at all with rejected scriptures, but the debate was not the primary issue even during the early disputes about Trinitarianism. And it is not the issue even now.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 4:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 8:24 PM NoNukes has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 231 of 2241 (738546)
10-11-2014 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by NoNukes
10-11-2014 8:12 PM


Re: Truth?
'The Bible' cannot exist without a Canon. That much is true. But that lack of agreement did not stop anyone from developing scriptural doctrine from the available scriptures. And we know for a fact that people did exactly that well prior to canonization.
Exactly. And they developed different Canons. And they developed doctrine and imposed doctrine. And they still do. And there is still no universal doctrine within Club Christian.
Truth is totally irrelevant and money, politics, control and power foremost.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 8:12 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 9:21 PM jar has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 232 of 2241 (738548)
10-11-2014 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by jar
10-11-2014 8:24 PM


Re: Truth?
And they developed different Canons
The Bible used by people who support the Oneness doctrine is essentially same as the one most Protestants use. Any differences are simply not much of an issue with regard to Trinitarian doctrine. Trinitarian Pentecostals find their doctrine in the same Bible that non Trinitarian Pentecostals use when they deny the doctrine.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 8:24 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 9:32 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 233 of 2241 (738549)
10-11-2014 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
10-11-2014 2:50 PM


Re: 3 in one
I'm saying the Trinity is a counterintuitive concept that is based on consistent revelation of the character of God as Three Persons in the Bible and that kind of logic you presented is just the usual way people misunderstand it and impose human standards on it.
I made no theological arguments or imposed any standards. I simply pointed out that the construct presented by Phat is logically false. You claim I 'don't have a clue', but all I did was logic, and you found no fault with the logic, so I think your criticism is unwarranted.
If you want to make theological arguments about how your god doesn't have to follow the rules of logic, you are welcome to do so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:46 PM Modulous has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 234 of 2241 (738550)
10-11-2014 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by NoNukes
10-11-2014 9:21 PM


Re: Truth?
But there is also the Samaritan Canon which has none of the new Testament and the different Ethopian Orthodox Canons.
The point is that the Bible is either not the inerrant word of God or that God was senile and unable to decide what books were in or out. And the concept of the Trinity is and was simply a matter of folk taking verses out of scripture to try to support their position just as those who oppose the concept do.
The difference is that those who oppose the concept of the Trinity have the advantage of reason, logic, understandability on their side.
As I mentioned above I happen to be one of those Christians that subscribe to the concept of the Trinity. I just don't try to cherry pick, take out of context and misrepresent what is found in scripture or claim that the concept is Biblical, reasonable, rational, logical or understandable.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 9:21 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by NoNukes, posted 10-11-2014 10:37 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 235 of 2241 (738551)
10-11-2014 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by jar
10-11-2014 4:09 PM


Re: Truth?
A Bible does not exist until after a Canon list the books to be included.
Absolute nonsense. The scriptures already existed in which the Trinity is demonstrated and it is from those those scripture references that the Trinity was made dogma by the Nicene Council
There is still no universally accepted Canon.
Not accepted by heretics and others but there is a canon accepted by Protestants.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 4:09 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by jar, posted 10-11-2014 10:06 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 236 of 2241 (738552)
10-11-2014 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Theodoric
10-11-2014 7:06 PM


Re: 3 in one
No, God is not a Person, God is God in Three Persons. And "person" simply means independent will or action or maybe even consciousness in a sense, not human being. Keep telling y'all the Trinity is not easy to grasp, but you do have to make a teensy bit of effort to avoid all these typical mistakes.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Theodoric, posted 10-11-2014 7:06 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 237 of 2241 (738553)
10-11-2014 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Modulous
10-11-2014 9:22 PM


Re: 3 in one
Then I'll say it more clearly: The Trinity is not logical, it is revealed truth however.
ABE: However, it's not all that illogical either. Consider the analogy I mentioned earlier: One God in Three Persons can be represented by the burning sun: its orb representing God the Father, its light representing God the Son, its heat representing God the Holy Ghost, all together One God in Three Persons. /ABE
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Modulous, posted 10-11-2014 9:22 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by Modulous, posted 10-11-2014 10:03 PM Faith has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 238 of 2241 (738555)
10-11-2014 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
10-11-2014 9:46 PM


Re: 3 in one
Then I'll say it more clearly: The Trinity is not logical
so you agree that your characterising me as having no clue was in fact unfair because I was saying what you just said. so unless we both have no clue...
One God in Three Persons can be represented by the burning sun: its orb representing God the Father, its light representing God the Son, its heat representing God the Holy Ghost,
The analogy just leads to the confusion you are trying to avoid, surely. The light is not the sun. The heat is not the sun. so it isn't the same as the diagram. If you were arguing that the Trinity are different aspects of God, it would be a different diagram and would be heresy/heterodox.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 10:09 PM Modulous has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 239 of 2241 (738556)
10-11-2014 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
10-11-2014 9:42 PM


Re: Truth?
Not accepted by heretics and others but there is a canon accepted by Protestants.
Thanks. Once again you support my assertions.
What your Chapter of Club Christian markets is is right while what other Chapters of Club Christian markets makes them heretics according to you.
We know you think that.
But that is irrelevant to the topic.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 240 of 2241 (738557)
10-11-2014 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by Modulous
10-11-2014 10:03 PM


Re: 3 in one
No analogy is perfect.
You tried to show that the Trinity is illogical as cause to dismiss it because you think it should be logical.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by Modulous, posted 10-11-2014 10:03 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Modulous, posted 10-11-2014 11:14 PM Faith has replied
 Message 254 by arachnophilia, posted 10-12-2014 6:57 PM Faith has replied

  
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