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Author Topic:   Claims of God Being Omnipotent in the Bible
MFFJM2
Member (Idle past 592 days)
Posts: 58
From: Washington, DC
Joined: 10-11-2009


Message 361 of 368 (739353)
10-23-2014 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by NoNukes
10-22-2014 10:18 PM


quote:
Two things.

First, you yourself denigrated the value of eye witness testimony in your post. Not sure what the purpose is of trying to re-elevate it here.


No, I denigrated uncorroborated and unverified eyewitness testimony, and the reason for that should be obvious. Also, eyewitness corroboration of letters and paintings/sculptures made at the time are a means of verification, and not held as the primary evidence.

quote:
Second, the comparison at hand is not to Jesus Christ, but to whoever djufo claims informed the Sumerians.

The inclusion of Jesus was another analogy, in this case to show the unreliability of "eyewitness" accounts that are unverified. However, djufo claimed he had evidence that Sumerian cuneiform supported Biblical events, and I am still awaiting that evidence. The attempt by djufo is not the first attempt to use the Epic of Gilgamesh as evidence for a worldwide Flood, and it has always been refuted by historians, as well as the sciences of archaeology, geology, biology, botany, hydrology.

Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed quote

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by NoNukes, posted 10-22-2014 10:18 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12922
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 362 of 368 (739369)
10-23-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Phat
10-22-2014 4:41 PM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Phat writes:

God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel, but He never made him rebel.

A leader may suspect that most of the people in his step study class wont listen to him, but he is charged to try and do his best anyway.


So God is a failure as a leader? He's a General who orders his troops over the top and only a handful of them go? Even human leaders are more inspiring than that.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Phat, posted 10-22-2014 4:41 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 10-23-2014 1:46 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 363 of 368 (739377)
10-23-2014 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by ringo
10-23-2014 12:34 PM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Human leaders inspire humans to do human things, like fighting for the freedom of capitalist exploitation so that their kids can inherit the family business.

Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it.

He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training.

He is a good leader, however, in that He took the bullet for everyone in the class...even the dropouts who chose not to hang. I hardly call that autocratic. You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink. We are living in times like that now. Time will tell which philosophy is the better one.


...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by ringo, posted 10-23-2014 12:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 10-23-2014 2:08 PM Phat has responded
 Message 366 by jar, posted 10-24-2014 9:39 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12922
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 364 of 368 (739382)
10-23-2014 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Phat
10-23-2014 1:46 PM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Phat writes:

Human leaders inspire humans to do human things, like fighting for the freedom of capitalist exploitation so that their kids can inherit the family business.


You're beginning to sound like me.

Phat writes:

Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it.

He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training.


That's just it though. The ones who choose not to go over the top get shot for cowardice. That isn't a free choice.

Phat writes:

You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink.


It's funny how Christians (American Christians anyway) espouse individualism here on earth but reject it for eternity.

Phat writes:

I hardly call that autocratic.


I'm not convinced you can separate omnipotence from autocracy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 10-23-2014 1:46 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 10-24-2014 2:17 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 365 of 368 (739454)
10-24-2014 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 364 by ringo
10-23-2014 2:08 PM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
I can imagine the conversation now....

GODs Chosen General: We wage war not against flesh & blood but against principalities,powers, and wickedness in high places! We have met the enemy and he is us!
Private Ringo Excuse me, but can i see some I.D.? I'm not convinced that i'm fighting the right foes here. All of the gods I've ever known failed to live up to their press release...and who am I listening to, anyway?

Satans army has better food and free beer! Who are we to judge them as the enemy?

General Ringo, why must you always be so contrarian? Can't you just listen to me? I AM knocking at the door of your conscience.

Ringo Looks to me like you have your servant Phat writing this script and I know he is not fully inspired to write it. I'm sorry, General...I and my critically thinking friends have far to many questions to join this outfit! Humans have discovered far too many contradictions and inconsistencies in the stories we have about your God! Religion is for the birds!

General Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Now fight the good fight, private and you will inherit eternal life!

Ringo So if the birds don't sow nor reap and yet get fed, why are your representatives always asking for my money? Frankly I'd rather give my spare change to the vagrants in the park. Those men are real,down to earth types...no religious facade there!
General I don't want your money! I want your heart and soul!
Ringo No can do. I don't know enough about you or your army to sign up...

So what can Gods General do?

Will Ringo end up in hell for rejecting that which he doesn't trust nor know enough about?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X


This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by ringo, posted 10-23-2014 2:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by ringo, posted 10-24-2014 12:48 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 28691
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 366 of 368 (739467)
10-24-2014 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by Phat
10-23-2014 1:46 PM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it.

Chapter and verse please.

He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training.

Chapter and verse please.

He is a good leader, however, in that He took the bullet for everyone in the class...even the dropouts who chose not to hang. I hardly call that autocratic. You people seem to assume that there is a better outfit to become involved with...one that has no leaders, mass consensus, and individual liberty rather than groupthink. We are living in times like that now. Time will tell which philosophy is the better one.

Chapter and verse please. Remember it must be verses where Jesus says, not John.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Phat, posted 10-23-2014 1:46 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by Phat, posted 10-24-2014 10:29 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9284
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 367 of 368 (739471)
10-24-2014 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by jar
10-24-2014 9:39 AM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Phat writes:

Jesus is a leader who tells everyone under His charge that they don't have to deny themselves if they don't have a heart for it.


jar writes:

Chapter and verse please.

I suppose the keyword here is "under His charge". This would mean the Disciples, right?
Matt 4:18-22 writes:

- As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men." 20At once they left their nets and followed him.

21 Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. They were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, 22 and immediately they left the boat and their father and followed him.

So far it appears that the action of following Jesus is quite voluntary. Im attempting to prove that Jesus never makes anyone do anything. Lets continue...
Matt 9:35-38 writes:

Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36 When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37 Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38 Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field."

Well...I suppose Jesus urges His followers to encourage each other to deny themselves and go and do...but I'm still unconvinced He is making us do anything! Lets continue...
Matt 16:24-25 writes:

--Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

He makes it clear that it will be their decision to deny themselves and follow Him.

hmmmm...the more I read the more I see no support for my statement. Im not giving up yet, though

I can empathize with the Disciples, however. After all, what do they get out of the deal??

Matt 19:27-30 writes:

27 Peter answered him, "We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?"

28 Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Evidently Jesus promises eternal life. So far, I cant prove where He told anyone it is ok to opt out.

all I can say is echoing this scripture.

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"
Im not convinced that one has to deny themselves. Shouldnt such an act be voluntary?
Phat writes:

He even lets everyone know beforehand that only a minority of them will graduate training.

jar writes:

Chapter and verse please.

OK I have one for this:
Matthew 7:13 writes:

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X


This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by jar, posted 10-24-2014 9:39 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12922
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 368 of 368 (739489)
10-24-2014 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Phat
10-24-2014 2:17 AM


Re: Many Are Cold And Few Are Frozen
Phat writes:

"We wage war not against flesh & blood but against principalities,powers, and wickedness in high places!"


Have you forgotten who created those principalities and powers? God is on both sides, just ike He was in World War One.

Maybe He's only in it for the carnage. He ought to know as well as we do that in war nobody wins.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Phat, posted 10-24-2014 2:17 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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