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Author Topic:   Raise Minimum Wage? Progressive Taxes? Let the Rich Decide!
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 57 (740147)
11-01-2014 3:25 PM


There is so much debate over whether the U.S. should raise the minimum wage or make income taxes more progressive. I say we should just let the rich people vote on what to do with their money.
quote:
"The Rich Also Worry about the Wealth Gap" from CBS Money Watch:
About half of America's millionaires favor boosting the federal minimum wage, which stands at $7.25 an hour; only 38 percent oppose giving low-income workers a raise.
Meanwhile, about 41 percent of millionaires are against raising taxes on the country's top earners, while 44 percent said they support the idea.
The rich seem to know what is best for their money; it's about time we let them decide what the U.S. does with it.

Love your enemies!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 11-01-2014 4:04 PM Jon has replied
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 11-02-2014 3:06 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied
 Message 19 by Taq, posted 11-04-2014 12:45 PM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 57 (740150)
11-01-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-01-2014 3:25 PM


Whats Best In A Global Context
Jon writes:
The rich seem to know what is best for their money; it's about time we let them decide what the U.S. does with it.
Are you suggesting I vote Republican? Those guys would ruin my union, and I would be the worse off for it....even if I did make a slightly better minimum wage than I would now. Plus I would cost the government more since I likely would be on Medicaid instead of private insurance. Nobody on minimum wage can even afford Obamacare.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-01-2014 3:25 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 11-01-2014 4:31 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 57 (740152)
11-01-2014 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
11-01-2014 4:04 PM


Re: Whats Best In A Global Context
I'm not suggesting anything.
I'm pointing out that even many of the wealthy see wealth inequality as a problem they are willing to spend money to fix.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 11-01-2014 4:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 2:05 PM Jon has replied
 Message 10 by Larni, posted 11-04-2014 6:03 AM Jon has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 57 (740187)
11-02-2014 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
11-01-2014 4:31 PM


Re: Whats Best In A Global Context
I'm pointing out that even many of the wealthy see wealth inequality as a problem they are willing to spend money to fix.
Yes, but the way they try and fix things never benefits the ones directly below them on the economic ladder. They will usually spend their money wisely...creating jobs for the poor...so that they end up with either cheaper labor or more efficient social programs. There is no such thing as true equality, in my mind. There is always competition. Always people on top and people on the bottom.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 11-01-2014 4:31 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 11-02-2014 4:44 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 5 of 57 (740196)
11-02-2014 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-01-2014 3:25 PM


Jon writes:
I say we should just let the rich people vote on what to do with their money.
I agree - give them one vote apiece, just like everybody else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-01-2014 3:25 PM Jon has seen this message but not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 57 (740201)
11-02-2014 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
11-02-2014 2:05 PM


Re: Whats Best In A Global Context
I'm not sure why this topic is so difficult for you, Phat.
We have had plenty of threads here that dealt with wealth/income inequality. The method to fixing the problem has always been higher pay for regular folk and higher taxes on the wealthy.
The article tells us that even many (though not a majority) of wealthy people agree with this. The point is that it is not us versus them; it's us plus a good chunk of them versus a small chunk of them.
I think the observation offered in the article leads to a lot of interesting questions, such as: if the solutions are so obvious and even a large number of the wealthy seem to think it would be good to pay their employees more and be taxed at a higher rate, why are we still moving in the opposite direction? Or: if so many wealthy people think wealthy people should pay more taxes, why do so many poor people think they shouldn't?
Edited by Jon, : No reason given.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 2:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 7 of 57 (740315)
11-03-2014 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Jon
11-02-2014 4:44 PM


Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
The rich have always been willing to give a little to the poor and middle class in order to prevent a revolution. Their only concern is how little will they need to give this time.
They are rich because they -- or their parents -- stole the profits from the workers who made it.
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Jon, posted 11-02-2014 4:44 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 11-03-2014 7:32 PM RAZD has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 8 of 57 (740316)
11-03-2014 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by RAZD
11-03-2014 7:24 PM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
They are rich because they -- or their parents -- stole the profits from the workers who made it.
Bullshit.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 11-03-2014 7:24 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Phat, posted 11-04-2014 5:57 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 11-04-2014 8:11 AM Coyote has replied
 Message 15 by ringo, posted 11-04-2014 11:18 AM Coyote has not replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 9 of 57 (740330)
11-04-2014 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
11-03-2014 7:32 PM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
I suppose you don't think that the grocery workers at your local store are worth much more than minimum wage.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 11-03-2014 7:32 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 184 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 10 of 57 (740331)
11-04-2014 6:03 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
11-01-2014 4:31 PM


Re: Whats Best In A Global Context
The reason the ultra rich are so rich is because they are incredibly effective at make money for themselves.
I would suggest that they are the last person to ask.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 57 (740334)
11-04-2014 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
11-03-2014 7:32 PM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
They are rich because they -- or their parents -- stole the profits from the workers who made it.
Bullshit.
(1) read your history -- the real history, not the pap in school textbooks ... A People's History of the United States
(2) perhaps you can tell me why one person's time is more valuable than another's? When someone works for you, every hour they spend means you do not have to spend that hour doing that work -- isn't the value the same whether you do it or someone else does it?
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 11-03-2014 7:32 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 11-04-2014 8:15 AM RAZD has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 12 of 57 (740335)
11-04-2014 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
11-04-2014 8:11 AM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
This is not a zero-sum situation.
Example: without Bill Gates, what would all of those workers have done? Crossword puzzles?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 11-04-2014 8:11 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Jon, posted 11-04-2014 8:34 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 14 by Theodoric, posted 11-04-2014 8:56 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 11-04-2014 4:29 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 57 (740338)
11-04-2014 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coyote
11-04-2014 8:15 AM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
Example: without Bill Gates, what would all of those workers have done?
Build computers for someone else, obviously.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Coyote, posted 11-04-2014 8:15 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 14 of 57 (740341)
11-04-2014 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Coyote
11-04-2014 8:15 AM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
You think Bill Gates started from nothing? He had a very privileged childhood. Chances are without his family's wealth he would not have been able to achieve what he has achieved.
quote:
His father was a prominent lawyer, and his mother served on the board of directors for First Interstate BancSystem and the United Way. Gates's maternal grandfather was JW Maxwell, a national bank president.
Bill Gates - Wikipedia
Do you think just anyone can attend Lakeside School?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 15 of 57 (740350)
11-04-2014 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Coyote
11-03-2014 7:32 PM


Re: Let the theives decide how they should be punished?
Coyote writes:
They are rich because they -- or their parents -- stole the profits from the workers who made it.
Bullshit.
I keep asking you, "Does Donald Trump work a thousand times harder than I do?" and you never answer. Does he work harder than Dillinger?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Coyote, posted 11-03-2014 7:32 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-04-2014 12:08 PM ringo has replied

  
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