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Member (Idle past 3625 days) Posts: 1811 From: East Asia Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What if Satan reformed? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
If satan and Jesus were together in a lineup, satan would be the one accusing Jesus of being the real bad guy. Jesus would utter nary a word. Actions speak louder than words.
As far as fighting God...we all do it at times. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Nonsense. It's the opposite. Jesus said:
If satan and Jesus were together in a lineup, satan would be the one accusing Jesus of being the real bad guy. Jesus would utter nary a word.quote:
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
soooo...which one would you pick?
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
To paraphrase Groucho Marx, I'd be suspicious of any club that wants me as a member. soooo...which one would you pick? And of course the third option is neither.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
And of course the third option is neither....
I can hear it now.... GOD: "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you... Ringo No thanks, I think I'll pass and just sit this one out.
Commentator Not to choose is choosing.....
Ringo Hey how do I know which one of you spooks to trust? All I can do is to trust my own conscience at this point! Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: GOD "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you...
Ringo No thanks, I think I'll pass and just sit this one out.
Commentator Not to choose is choosing.....
Ringo Hey how do I know which one of you spooks to trust? All I can do is to trust my own conscience at this point! What happened to actions speak louder than words?Are we back to words mean everything now? What about words that you've put in Ringo's mouth? How come those are louder than Ringo's actions?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
That's why I said that not choosing either A or B is the third option. The problem is that your sadistic "god" takes a damned-if-you-choose-and-damned-if-you-don't-choose attitude. He gives no real choice. Commentator Not to choose is choosing..... He offers nothing but slavery. Even if the chains are soft and fluffy, you don't dare break them.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
He gives no real choice What sort of choice would you imagine He should offer...to your satisfaction?
He offers nothing but slavery. One mans slavery is another mans security. You claim to want to be given the choice to grow up and leave home, but my point is that you will find...after building your own home/country/universe that you miss having a Fathering Spirit around. Men who grow up without a father never outgrow the emptiness that the reality causes. Im betting that even satan regrets having left home---though he is likely too proud to admit it.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stile writes: What about them? Ringo is free to refute them or elaborate on them, should he wish.
What about words that you've put in Ringo's mouth? How come those are louder than Ringo's actions? Are they? Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: Stile writes:
Are they? How come those are louder than Ringo's actions? Um... that's a question for you. You're the one who first said that "actions speak louder than words."Then you go ahead and put words in Ringo's (and God's) mouth that imply Ringo's actions are worthless... So, which of the two conflicting positions are you proposing?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I've answered that question for you many times. All I want is to be left alone. Just don't fry me. And I don't want to live for ever and ever with somebody who fried my friends.
What sort of choice would you imagine He should offer...to your satisfaction? Phat writes:
Your point is unfounded. I could say the same empty thing to you: After half an eternity in heaven you'll miss the friends that He butchered.
You claim to want to be given the choice to grow up and leave home, but my point is that you will find...after building your own home/country/universe that you miss having a Fathering Spirit around. Phat writes:
For every man in that boat there's one who had an abusive father who's gladder than glad that the bastard is gone.
Men who grow up without a father never outgrow the emptiness that the reality causes.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Who were your friends? How did they get fried?
All I want is to be left alone. Just don't fry me. And I don't want to live for ever and ever with somebody who fried my friends. After half an eternity in heaven you'll miss the friends that He butchered. We need some info for the autopsy report...how exactly did these people get butchered? We need an outline.... Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Stile writes: You do have a point, though in context, Ringo and I have an understanding and method to our debates. I never willingly attack Ringos character. What I do is that I challenge Ringo to respond to my posts---and in so doing---may come across as putting words in his mouth. The motive is to trigger a response---nothing more. (Ringo please forgive me if I offend you)...now...as for you, Stile....as a non-believer how do you propose that humans describe Gods character and personality without putting words in His mouth? To some, God is a human-generated character...thus we are charged to give Him words. You're the one who first said that "actions speak louder than words."Then you go ahead and put words in Ringo's (and God's) mouth that imply Ringo's actions are worthless... I am trying to give respect to God as I make these posts, though perhaps I am presumptuous to speak for Him.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Phat writes: ....as a non-believer how do you propose that humans describe Gods character and personality without putting words in His mouth? To some, God is a human-generated character...thus we are charged to give Him words. I don't really have a problem with the putting-words-in-His-mouth part.I agree that this is all we have to work with. The problem I had was the conflicting ideas. One idea was that actions speak louder than words.The other idea is that final words are all that matter and the actions of our life are worthless. I was just wondering how you reconcile those two.
I am trying to give respect to God as I make these posts, though perhaps I am presumptuous to speak for Him. And what do you really think of God?Do you think God really cares about what people profess, regardless of their actions? (Are lawyers the most favored of God's people?) Or do you think God really cares about what people actually do, regardless of what they profess? (Is who we are deep-down what God actually cares about?) It's a fairly significant difference in what you think about God. So far, you've just been riding a middle road. That maybe sometimes God favors what we profess... as long as it agrees with what Phat thinks God is like. And other times, God favors our actions... as long as those actions coincide with how Phat thinks God is. Does that sound realistic? Or does it sound like Phat is making himself into God?
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Broadly speaking, my friends would include the members of EvC. If you're right, then you and Faith won't get fried. (If Faith is right, you might get fried. ) Most of the rest of us seem to be fair game, according to your theology, because we have "chosen" to be without God.
Who were your friends? How did they get fried? Phat writes:
H.E.L.L.
We need some info for the autopsy report...how exactly did these people get butchered? We need an outline....
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