The "Backfire Effect" -- is it real?

From facebook page referring to There's No Arguing With Conservatives ... No, Seriously, Scientific Studies Prove It | HuffPost Latest News ...

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Alan Henderson--- I thought cognitive dissonance/confirmation bias were bad enough, but since learning about the Backfire Effect I'm no longer confident that we can fix the terminal illnesses we're suffering.

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Philippe: "Rational discourse with conservatives is worse than futile: it is actively *counterproductive*.

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A new study out of Yale University confirms what argumentative liberals have long-known: Offering reality-based rebuttals to conservative lies only makes conservatives cling to those lies even harder.

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In essence, schooling conservatives makes them more stupid. The refutation, in other words, made the misinformation worse.

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A similar "backfire effect" also influenced conservatives told about Bush administration assertions that tax cuts increase federal revenue.

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One group was offered a refutation by prominent economists that included current and former Bush administration officials.

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About 35 percent of conservatives told about the Bush claim believed it; 67 percent of those provided with both assertion and refutation believed that tax cuts increase revenue."

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We've seen it, where people just dig in their heels rather than adapt to contrary information.

I think this might be relavant:
A friend and retired IT VP tells of a management course exercise a class did.They were given a modestly complex arithmetic problem and not allowed to use any tools (like paper and pencil) which made the problem just hard enough that the group split into sets with 3 different answers.Everyone went into a huddle with those who agreed with them. They discussed how they got their answers. This caused some to change their minds and the moved to a different group.Then each group attempted to convince the others of what they felt was the right answer. Again individuals moved if they changed their minds.In my friends case he moved and he and almost the whole class ended up in the same and correct group.Over lunch the instructor said he has done this exercise with people from all over the wold many times.In my friends case the entire class were Canadian executives. The instructor says he sees the difference between Canadian groups and others. The Canadians are very inclined to listen, change and end up with most or all with the right answer.Americans, he said, almost never change. The are loyal to their original group. They will stick with the group even when they are actually convinced it is wrong and are very hard to convince it is wrong as well.

I remember reading some research about Jehovah's Witnesses that showed that after each failed end times prophecies the JVs simply strengthened their beliefs. They simply rationalised the failures and still believe that the end is nigh - they're just rather coy at naming the date publicly now.The same thing seemed to happen after Harold Camping's first endtime prediction but after his second failed they believers had had enough.

The actual paper is here:
Page Not Found | DartmouthHuff got it wrong -- not Yale.Enjoy

Yes, that kind of thing was mentioned in the wiki article on cognitive dissonance:Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

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An early version of cognitive dissonance theory appeared in Leon Festinger's 1956 book, When Prophecy Fails. This book gives an account of the deepening of cult members' faith following the failure of a cult's prophecy that a UFO landing was imminent. The believers met at a pre-determined place and time, believing they alone would survive the Earth's destruction. The appointed time came and passed without incident. They faced acute cognitive dissonance: had they been the victim of a hoax? Had they donated their worldly possessions in vain? Most members chose to believe something less dissonant to resolve reality not meeting their expectations: they believed that the aliens had given Earth a second chance, and the group was now empowered to spread the word that earth-spoiling must stop. The group dramatically increased their proselytism despite the failed prophecy.[4]

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So perhaps this is an outgrowth of cognitive dissonance when there is strong denial.Enjoy

I wonder how it split on political persuasion and how it fits with authoritarians. There certainly is more of a political conversation in Canada and less of the spiteful divisionism that may predispose americans to taking extreme positions and holding on to them.Enjoy.nice hatEdited by RAZD, : ..

Frightening, yes.I think things will change as the younger generation grows up.
I could easily be wrong, but this is my theory:Older generations knew how to do things. They were used to being shown how to do something by an expert (like an apprenticeship program) and that was the way to do it. It never changed. You used the right size wrench, you used the proper hammer... and it was easy. It was the right way, and any other way to do it was wrong.Because of this, they get very used to the idea of learning something, seeing it work, and then clamping down on it as "the one and only viable answer for this problem." That sort of thinking gets ingrained.New generations are getting used to a completely different world.
Now, most things are ran on some sort of software. All those softwares become obsolete and are replaced, or have updates and patches to keep them running smoothly.This generation is getting used to the idea that change/improvement is good... as opposed to the old generation that grew up on the main idea that change/improvement generally failed.This is a distinct difference in mindset.
Now changes are looked at with an open mind.
Is this a patch that will help? Or will it just add more bugs of it's own?
How do we know? Let's try it and see...The side-effect of this is ingraining a sense of reality-based trial-and-error processes in order to get to the solution. And always being aware that next year there might be another patch. Or tomorrow that-guy-on-youtube might have a faster way of doing things they didn't know about.Instead of knowing all the answers, the internet is teaching children that usually... someone else has the better answer. You just have to look it up and learn it. And then possibly improve from there.I dunno... I'm just rambling. It's my pet-theory, though. And I think he's pretty cute

As I type this on my 7 year old Dell inspiron running XP I say change is good but not for change sake. I still have a Iphone G3 ha ha.
My previous computer was a G3 Blueberry that finally could no longer load a standard web browser.The thing I notice with Millennials is they are not one to get bogged down with customer loyalty or a "set way of doing things."
If someone builds a better mousetrap you can bet they will be on board with it. If they can save a minute by shopping online or expedite a chore by using modern software or a app they are all in.
Your right in that change is upon us in every aspect of our lives. I seem to be bombarded with information on any browser page from ads that animate to multitudes of streaming information.I am not saying that the changes are negative, or the ol ways are best. Im just saying sometimes I feel we are bogged down with faster more complex gadgets that necessitate a faster life. Everyone seems to be streaming data and the simple act of enjoying a beer at the pub sans smart phone is lost.
We can speed down the highways and byways faster than ever accessing music, news, the web. In a hurry to get everywhere to do everything and in the blurr of it all I sometimes feel we have lost something. My kids dont want to watch the old christmas standards I grew up watching because they are "boring" and have crappy special effects. Jeeze, I may be the last generation to appreciate It's a Wonderful Life. ok rant over.

As a disclaimer... I'm 36 years old. I think that puts me at the beginning-edge of the "new generation"? I don't think that's quite old enough to be part of the "older generation" either though... Anyway, that's where I'm coming from. I completely agree. There's a time and place for everything. It's figuring out when to sit tight and when to change that's the toughie I agree with this as well.
I think we are losing something.
We're also gaining something.
Only time will tell if the exchange is 'worth it.'I think that maybe this sort of happens all the time, though.
That is... there's always 'something lost' and 'something gained' with every generational transition.It's not always for the best (dark ages).
Even when the balance is in favour of society as a whole... I'm sure there are some good things that get lost that shouldn't have gone that way.It's a bit depressing to think about, but I think that's just the way it is. Yeah, strange how the nostalgic effect comes with it's own "and everyone else should love this too!!" feeling.
Hopefully everyone else's "sparkle" is just as good for them, even if it is from a different source.

I grew up watching newsreels from World War Two with - guess what - real explosions. So to me, movies with fireballs the size of Chicago that pass for "explosions" are the ones with crappy special effects. Transformers is the same as The Flintstones to me.

I can not even watch 'transformers' without getting a headache.
To much going on. Shit is flying all over the screen. Your right Ringo more is not always better.

So there was a promo for this weeks Late Show and I did not recognize a single name or face from the Guest List.And car ads simply make me want to keep the car I have. I don't want my car to have touch screens, Blue Tooth, WiFi, cell phone connections, lane change warnings, blind spot monitors ...Then there are the Lite Beer and Vodka commercials. Enough to turn a man away from booze. The absolute worst of the bunch are the "Up for anything" ones. I don't even want to associate with anyone that would find those commercials entertaining.