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Author Topic:   Books for Skeptics
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1 of 12 (737462)
09-25-2014 10:46 AM


Just finished a couple good books.
Paranormality
Why we believe the impossible
Richard Wiseman
http://www.thriftbooks.com/viewdetails.aspx?isbn=1447208161

Wiseman explores many aspects of the paranormal and shows how and why from a psychological aspect people believe the impossible. He uses scientific evidence and studies to make his points. He also provides exercises so the reader to can see and experience some of the phenomena themselves. His chapter on out of body experiences is very interesting and enlightening.

Also, those of you that have been around a while know that I am proponent of the Jesus as myth argument. Here is a book that distills many of the mythist arguments down to a quick read.
Nailed
Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All
David Fitzgerald

https://wordery.com/nailed-david-fitzgerald-9780557709915


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Theodoric has responded
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-26-2014 12:00 PM Theodoric has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 2 of 12 (737476)
09-25-2014 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
09-25-2014 10:46 AM


The Heart Of Skepticism
I can understand why a skeptic would read a book to verify and strengthen their worldview....just as a believer reads books and hears testimonies that strengthen their faith. I have so far come to the conclusion that nothing can be proven logically beyond a shodow of a doubt but that what usually convinces me comes from the heart rather than the mind. Do skeptics even have a heart? What would be the motive of spreading such disinformation? Just curious.

...."When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 09-25-2014 10:46 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Tangle, posted 09-25-2014 4:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 4 by Diomedes, posted 09-25-2014 4:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5 by Theodoric, posted 09-25-2014 5:49 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 6 by Theodoric, posted 09-25-2014 7:45 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 09-26-2014 12:42 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 4409
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 3 of 12 (737477)
09-25-2014 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-25-2014 4:30 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
Phat writes:

Do skeptics even have a heart?

Yes we do. We use it to pump blood through our cardiovascular system.

Do you want to rephrase that inane, insulting and patronising question? Possibly in a more Christian way?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 568
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 4 of 12 (737478)
09-25-2014 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-25-2014 4:30 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
I have so far come to the conclusion that nothing can be proven logically beyond a shodow of a doubt but that what usually convinces me comes from the heart rather than the mind. Do skeptics even have a heart?

Yes. Skeptics have hearts. We use them to pump blood throughout the major vessels of our bodies. The difference is: we understand that the heart is just a muscle and has no intrinsic capabilities beyond its basic function.

What would be the motive of spreading such disinformation? Just curious.

Because specific beliefs can be harmful. Skeptics 'debunk' certain beliefs or myths in the same way the Mythbusters debunk urban legends or bad Hollywood stunts. The idea is to inform the public regarding the actual truth of certain matters.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 5 of 12 (737480)
09-25-2014 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-25-2014 4:30 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
Do you have any response other than insults? Have you read the books? Can you refute the evidence?

If you have nothing take a flying leap.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 6 of 12 (737482)
09-25-2014 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-25-2014 4:30 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
What would be the motive of spreading such disinformation?

Tell me what part is disinformation.
Why do you think there is some sort of nefarious motivation for posting information about books that I find informative?

Did anyone ask your motivation for this?
Message 1
or this
Message 1
or Message 1
or Message 1


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Phat has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11183
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 7 of 12 (737512)
09-26-2014 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
09-25-2014 10:46 AM


Can you give us a book report on each of them?

I'm honestly never going to read them, but I am interested in what they have to say.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 09-25-2014 10:46 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Theodoric, posted 09-26-2014 12:08 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 8 of 12 (737514)
09-26-2014 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
09-26-2014 12:00 PM


I will try to get to that in the next week. I am going to be in Boston all next. My wife has a conference, but our 5 year old be with us so have no idea how much free time I will have

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-26-2014 12:00 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by New Cat's Eye, posted 09-26-2014 2:50 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 12820
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 9 of 12 (737518)
09-26-2014 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Phat
09-25-2014 4:30 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
Phat writes:

I can understand why a skeptic would read a book to verify and strengthen their worldview....just as a believer reads books and hears testimonies that strengthen their faith.


A skeptic, by his very nature, is just as likely to read a book that questions or even threatens his worldview. If he seeks only to reinforce what he already (thinks he) knows, he's no skeptic.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 09-25-2014 4:30 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 09-26-2014 4:17 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11183
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 10 of 12 (737539)
09-26-2014 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Theodoric
09-26-2014 12:08 PM


Shit, don't worry about us, you don't owe us anything.

But I would appreciate seeing the info, so thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Theodoric, posted 09-26-2014 12:08 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5702
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 11 of 12 (737547)
09-26-2014 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by ringo
09-26-2014 12:42 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
A skeptic, by his very nature, is just as likely to read a book that questions or even threatens his worldview. If he seeks only to reinforce what he already (thinks he) knows, he's no skeptic.

This is the thing that the "religious", followers of woo and FoxNews watchers don't understand.

Personally, I have read versions of the bible cover to cover more times than I remember. I read passages probably weekly in research I am doing. I have read the koran at least twice. I have also read the torah and a bit of talmudic writings. Alas, none in the original language. I cannot get very far with apologetics, the mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance they demand is to painful.

It is very telling how threatened Phat is by anyone presenting a viewpoint that is counter to his worldview. I am not threatened by alternate worldviews. On the contrary they force me to look at my worldview and constantly realign it with reality and facts that I ahve been presented.

A skeptic demands evidence. If they cannot present evidence then even listening to them is a waste of time.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by ringo, posted 09-26-2014 12:42 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 11-29-2014 8:45 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9260
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 12 of 12 (743273)
11-29-2014 8:45 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Theodoric
09-26-2014 4:17 PM


Re: The Heart Of Skepticism
Theodoric writes:

It is very telling how threatened Phat is by anyone presenting a viewpoint that is counter to his worldview. I am not threatened by alternate worldviews. On the contrary they force me to look at my worldview and constantly realign it with reality and facts that have been presented.

I will agree that I feel threatened. Still, all in all, I learn more from engaging in conversations with those whom I disagree with than I ever would if I hung out at a "Christian" Forum. I would never learn anything there.

Henry Hazlitt put it this way in Thinking As A Science

quote:
Modern psychologists tell us that all reasoning begins in perplexity, hesitation, doubt. "The process of reasoning is one of problem solving. . . . The occasion for the reasoning is always a thwarted purpose.'' It is essential we keep this in mind. It differs from the popular conception even more than may appear at first sight. If a man were to know everything he could not think. Nothing would ever puzzle him, his purposes would never be thwarted, he would never experience perplexity or doubt, he would have no problems. If we are to conceive of God as an All-Knower, we cannot conceive of Him as a Thinking Being. Thinking is reserved for beings of finite intelligence. Were we to study the origin and evolution of thinking, we would doubtless find that thinking arose in just this way—from thwarted purposes.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 09-26-2014 4:17 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
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