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Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 1 of 331 (744495)
12-11-2014 3:03 PM


The Science and Theory of Addiction
Though we(I) have discussed behavioral addiction before, I wanted to start a new topic on this societal phenomenon and share what I have learned the past few years.
In this topic, any addiction is fair game for discussion. Some of the more common addictions facing society today are drinking, legal and illegal drug abuse, gambling, pornography, overeating, obsessive/compulsive disorders,and social media..such as we are on now.
First, lets define addiction.
American Society Of Addictive Medicine writes:
Addiction is a primary, chronic disease of brain reward, motivation, memory and related circuitry. Dysfunction in these circuits leads to characteristic biological, psychological, social and spiritual manifestations. This is reflected in an individual pathologically pursuing reward and/or relief by substance use and other behaviors.
Addiction is characterized by inability to consistently abstain, impairment in behavioral control, craving, diminished recognition of significant problems with one’s behaviors and interpersonal relationships, and a dysfunctional emotional response. Like other chronic diseases, addiction often involves cycles of relapse and remission. Without treatment or engagement in recovery activities, addiction is progressive and can result in disability or premature death.
Dr. Patrick Carnes, well known sex addictions expert, states that he believes that our society is becoming more and more trapped in addictions and addictive behavior and that this fact is important.
Does anyone here dare be honest and say they struggle with addiction?(You need not name it or get too personal with us)
Does anyone think that addiction is not a definite societal problem and that one mans sin is another mans leisure?
Does anyone have anything to add to get this discussion rolling? (Larni I eagerly await your participation!)
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 12-12-2014 11:26 AM Phat has replied
 Message 3 by NoNukes, posted 12-12-2014 12:11 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 12-12-2014 1:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 47 by Larni, posted 05-30-2015 7:02 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 9 of 331 (744589)
12-13-2014 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
12-12-2014 11:26 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Critics might suggest that you don't much care what bad habits you have either. Which leads us to the definition again.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
One of the major purposes of debate is to help you hone your arguments. Yours are pretty bad. They can use all the honing they can get.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 12-12-2014 11:26 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 12-13-2014 10:41 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 331 (744590)
12-13-2014 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
12-12-2014 4:11 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
I realized that I couldn't quit nicotine, though, so I switched to vaping. Its waaay better.
Critics would suggest that vaping is a rationalization(excuse) to avoid the problem. One could argue, however, that the damage caused by vaping is small compared to inhaling nicotine directly...or is that what vaping is?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2014 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2014 9:40 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 331 (744630)
12-13-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
12-13-2014 10:41 AM


Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
I had a day off today and found myself looking at all sorts of old threads. Straggler and I had been discussing demons and whatnot over at Do We Need God and it quite naturally occurred to me to discuss whether any synthesis exists between an addicted brain and a "demon-possessed" brain.
What we do know is that an addicted brain appears markedly different from a "healthy" brain under microscopic analysis.
Sobriety causes the pathways to "dry up" and lose active status towards channeling the addictive behavior. It is almost analogous to the brain being allowed to reboot itself...given enough rest and time away from the addiction.
The full healing process achieved through sobriety usually involves a minimum of six months and an expected duration of two years.
As far as not caring, the first model of the Stages Of Change is pre-contemplation. People in this stage don't care either. (and i'm not your mother...just sayin)
How to Move through the Stages of Change
1. PRECONTEMPLATION
To get to the next stage you will need to:
- Consider new information about yourself and the problem.
- Know the benefits of changing. Express your feelings about the demands on you and about potential solutions.
- Understand others' demands on you to change and how your behavior affects the environment or others.
Example Techniques:
- Have a professional, or someone you trust, give you feedback on your behavior and how it may be affecting you and others.
- Monitor the behavior to see when, where and how much you do it. Note your feelings before, during and afterwards.
- Do some reading to learn more about this behavior.
- Tell someone your feelings about the demands on you to change and about what you believe your choices are.
- Look for ways that society and others will help you to change.
- Notice how your behavior affects the environment or others.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by ringo, posted 12-13-2014 10:41 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:20 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 15 of 331 (744664)
12-14-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by ringo
12-14-2014 1:20 PM


Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
ringo writes:
When I said I don't care I meant that I don't care if something I do can technically be called an addiction. The actual effects on myself and those around me are all that matters, not a match with a definition in a book.
Of course, I understand. And perhaps I should stop trying so much to define addiction so much for everybody else and let each of us settle on a definition that suits ourselves. In our Theological debates, truth is absolute in my mind and relative to the individual in many of my opponents minds---the same could be said of knowledge.
I will share this much. I went to my counselor last week. He is accredited--he is on the state board for problem gamblers and he is acquainted with all of the latest research on addictive behaviors. In our session, he shared two nuggets of truth with me that stand out in my thinking.
  • When I say that gambling hurts nobody else besides myself, it is a lie. Simply not true, in his mind. He mentions that by crippling myself with addictive behavior, I am depriving others of the help that I could give them.(He thinks I am a leader! )
  • IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved. It has been his experience that compulsive problem gambling is as hard to cure as a methamphetamine or even a heroin addiction.
    Jon has mentioned that I am the only member at EvC who routinely starts topics to discuss himself. Guilty.
    And I need your prayers and advice. On my end of the deal, I will try and do my best. This is officially day 4 of sobriety.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 14 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:20 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:51 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 17 of 331 (744669)
    12-14-2014 1:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
    12-14-2014 1:51 PM


    Re: Addictions and Demons and Things That Go Bump In The Night
    Phat writes:
    IF I can get this addiction cured, all of my other minor addictions of any severity or consequence will also get resolved.
    Ringo,responding writes:
    Really? Or is your behaviour just as likely to be channelled in another direction?
    Lets do some research on this one. Assuming EvC (and us) are still here in six months, let me get back to you on this one.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 16 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 1:51 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 18 by ringo, posted 12-14-2014 2:11 PM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 22 of 331 (745605)
    12-24-2014 6:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 21 by NoNukes
    12-23-2014 7:55 PM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    Perhaps we should discuss various definitions of what constitutes an addiction.
    Here is one such definition for consideration and to fuel further topic discussion:
    WHO Lexicon writes:
    addiction, drug or alcohol Repeated use of a psychoactive substance or substances, to the extent that the user (referred to as an addict) is periodically or chronically intoxicated, shows a compulsion to take the preferred substance (or substances), has great difficulty in voluntarily ceasing or modifying substance use, and exhibits determination to obtain psychoactive substances by almost any means. Typically, tolerance is prominent and a withdrawal syndrome frequently occurs when substance use is interrupted. The life of the addict may be dominated by substance use to the virtual exclusion of all other activities and responsibilities. The term addiction also conveys the sense that such substance use has a detrimental effect on society, as well as on the individual; when applied to the use of alcohol, it is equivalent to alcoholism. Addiction is a term of long-standing and variable usage. It is regarded by many as a discrete disease entity, a debilitating disorder rooted in the pharmacological effects of the drug, which is remorselessly progressive. From the 1920s to the 1960s attempts were made to differentiate between addiction ; and "habituation", a less severe form of psychological adaptation. In the 1960s the World Health Organization recommended that both terms be abandoned in favour of dependence, which can exist in various degrees of severity. Addiction is not a diagnostic term in ICD-10, but continues to be very widely employed by professionals and the general public alike.
    Are you addicted to vitamin C? After all, if you don't get enough of it you are going to get scurvy.
    Does it bother you that nobody considers vitamin C an addition?
    Vitamin C can be taken or not taken...at least by me...without any compulsion or physically or psychological need to take it. Perhaps a health freak could become obsessed with taking C religiously, however, and it could theoretically then be classified as an addiction...but the addiction would not be to the substance itself would it?
    Edited by Phat, : spelling
    Edited by Phat, : added NoNukes

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 21 by NoNukes, posted 12-23-2014 7:55 PM NoNukes has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 23 by NoNukes, posted 12-25-2014 1:37 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 24 of 331 (745826)
    12-28-2014 5:42 AM
    Reply to: Message 23 by NoNukes
    12-25-2014 1:37 AM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    I tend to believe that addiction by definition is defined as an altered brain.
    A maladaptive response to stress.
    As of today, I am on day 17 of sobriety. Noted, among other things, is an increased capacity for emotion.
    Also am reconnecting with my past belief(ten years ago or so) and feel I am improving in some ways and stagnant in other ways.
    The experts claim it will take 6 months of sobriety before I will even experience a full flood of emotions from the healing process.
    I plan on sticking it out that long---so we may get some subjective feedback from my narcissistic ass. Stay tuned.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 23 by NoNukes, posted 12-25-2014 1:37 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 26 of 331 (745939)
    12-30-2014 1:07 AM
    Reply to: Message 25 by NoNukes
    12-28-2014 3:07 PM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    Cat Sci writes:
    And what good is a tautological definition of addiction? "Its a problem when its a problem"
    NoNukes writes:
    That's not what I said. I said that an addiction causes life problems.
    Dr.Patrick Carnes
    Lets define addiction, for starters.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 25 by NoNukes, posted 12-28-2014 3:07 PM NoNukes has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 27 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:36 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 28 of 331 (745989)
    12-31-2014 2:00 AM
    Reply to: Message 27 by NoNukes
    12-30-2014 1:36 AM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    I posted this in another topic, but will repost it here---which is where it belongs!
    quote:
    I have a licensed counselor. He is on the state board of problem gambling.
    Through talking with him in sessions, I learn much of the research done and the methods such as The Stages Of Change Model and Rational Recovery.
    He is a good therapist, but I am a stubborn old coot. I often go around the same mountain several dozen times before I realize that i'm not getting anywhere. My therapist explained the addictive pattern in the brain and much of the stuff that I share here at EvC. He even suggested medications, which I have tried in the past but reject overall--they cause harm as well as good.
    Addiction is quite definable and observable within me. As I achieve a longer and longer time with sobriety, I will note the reactions and emotions and will talk of them here. Thats the plan.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 27 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:36 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 33 of 331 (746128)
    01-03-2015 2:25 AM
    Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
    01-02-2015 12:17 PM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    satan could hypothetically be an addiction. He essentially is a counterfeit need yet is only a problem for some. Personally, I know in my mind that I better stick with real needs and avoid counterfeit ones---if only for my mental health and conscience.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 32 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 12:17 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 34 by ringo, posted 01-03-2015 10:35 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 35 of 331 (746149)
    01-03-2015 11:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 34 by ringo
    01-03-2015 10:35 AM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    ringo writes:
    What about the need to blame somebody besides ourselves? Would that be an addiction too?
    Religion can be an addiction, I think. Of course I'M NOT addicted!

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 34 by ringo, posted 01-03-2015 10:35 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 38 of 331 (746271)
    01-05-2015 8:58 AM


    Day 25
    This is only my 25th day of full sobriety from my addiction. I can report that I already feel a resensitivity to my feelings, as I find that I laugh and cry easier than before. Subjectively I can confirm the fact that my addiction served to numb and/or minimize pain and awareness.
    The experts claim that a "flood of feelings" won't appear evident until after 180 days of sobriety has passed so I await that event as I move forward one day at a time.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
    reality is not something you take a vote on.~jar

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 42 of 331 (757714)
    05-12-2015 11:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
    12-12-2014 11:26 AM


    Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
    Ringo writes:
    Q: Do you suffer from addiction?
    A: No. I enjoy it.
    I have recently been studying the philosophy of the group known as Rational Recovery. They make a lot of sense!
    RR writes:
    In effect, you have two separate "brains" within your head. One is primitive, similar to the brain of a dog or a horse. This we call the midbrain. It is basically the brain of a beast, and its only purpose is to survive. The "beast brain" generates survival appetites that drive the rest of the body toward what it demands, such as oxygen, food, sex, and fluids.
    Thus, we have met the "enemy" and he is us! Our primitive mind will never see any problem with any sort of self indulgence.
    But another brain sits on top of the beast brain, the cerebral cortex. This "new brain," or neocortex, allows human beings to be conscious, to think, to have language, and to solve problems. Your neocortex is "you," and you can override any appetite, even for oxygen.
    Thus...Rational Recovery uses logic and an acknowledgement towards personal responsibility found only in our higher brain.
    They have a system known as AVRT. (Addictive Voice Recognition Therapy) Basically, however...they agree with you in that
    Addiction is a voluntary behavior (such as drinking alcohol or using drugs) that persists against your own own better judgment. Thus, addiction cannot be diagnosed or attributed to you by others, including physicians. It is solely up to you to decide if your drinking threatens or harms others and yourself. You must decide now whether continuing your addictive pleasures is worth the destruction that will likely result. In other words, you are free to choose between drinking and not drinking between the high life and family life, between right and wrong.
    If you believe there is nothing wrong with your own drinking/using, then you are free to continue, provided you are willing to accept the likely consequences.
    The point is that we are responsible for our addictions and bad habits and we also have the power within us to cease any addiction...provided we are honest with ourselves and ready.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by ringo, posted 12-12-2014 11:26 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 43 of 331 (758096)
    05-19-2015 12:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 41 by New Cat's Eye
    01-05-2015 2:17 PM


    Rational Recovery Philosophy Examined
    Cat Sci writes:
    For one, I need vitamin C to survive.
    For two, never once has my body told me: "I kinda feel like shit, you should get some vitamin C in here".
    On the other hand, I do not need nicotine nor caffeine to survive but on many occasions my body has told me to get some so it'll stop feeling like shit.
    This observation further supports the RR hypothesis. An addiction by definition is actively courted and desired by our primitive brain.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-05-2015 2:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 44 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-29-2015 2:52 PM Phat has replied

      
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