Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 331 (744565)
12-12-2014 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
12-11-2014 3:03 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Does anyone think that addiction is not a definite societal problem and that one mans sin is another mans leisure?
What I think works is an operational definition. If you have a habit that is causing problems in your life, then it is an addiction.
Using that definition, there are no good or benign addictions. Your habit, vice, pleasure, or whatever is out of control if it is messing up any aspect of your life.
That might also mean that an addiction for one person is a non problem for another.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 12-11-2014 3:03 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2014 2:09 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 331 (744575)
12-12-2014 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by New Cat's Eye
12-12-2014 2:09 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
I'm totally addicted but it doesn't cause any problems.
Smoking causes health problems that are, to the best of my knowledge, inescapable. No one is immune.
But let's assume you are correct. Then you don't meet my operational definition of an addict.
My question to you though is, how do you know if you are an addict by your own definition? Is it because you tried to quit and could not? If so, why did you do try that?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2014 2:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2014 4:11 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 331 (744582)
12-12-2014 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by New Cat's Eye
12-12-2014 4:11 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
But let's assume you are correct. Then you don't meet my operational definition of an addict.
Yeah I was just challenging your definition.
I know. But we don't want to talk about silly things like an oxygen addiction or a vitamin D addiction just because you cannot stop using.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-12-2014 4:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2014 9:34 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 331 (745526)
12-23-2014 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by New Cat's Eye
12-15-2014 9:40 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
What is the point of denying that this is an addiction because it doesn't debilitate my life?
Are you addicted to vitamin C? After all, if you don't get enough of it you are going to get scurvy.
Does it bother you that nobody considers vitamin C an addition?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2014 9:40 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 12-24-2014 6:15 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:48 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 331 (745622)
12-25-2014 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Phat
12-24-2014 6:15 PM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Vitamin C can be taken or not taken...at least by me...without any compulsion or physically or psychological need to take it.
You don't need Vitamin C supplements because you are already getting vitamin C from elsewhere. Cut that stuff off and you are going to have physical issues.
What's missing, among other things, is any kind of determination to obtain vitamin C by any means. Scurvy does not communicate to your body any need to get vitamin C.
At any rate, I agree that Vitamin C does not belong on the list. On the other hand, the definition is specifically for psychoactive substances and requires that the substance produce intoxication. It would exclude vaping or smoking. Perhaps using it is just defining away Cat Sci's question in an unsatisfactory way.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 12-24-2014 6:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 12-28-2014 5:42 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 331 (745869)
12-28-2014 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by New Cat's Eye
12-15-2014 9:34 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
What's the point in discussing addiction if you're going to rule out one of the most addictive substances that we know of?
I've already answered this question twice.
And what good is a tautological definition of addiction? "Its a problem when its a problem"
That's not what I said. I said that an addiction causes life problems. I did not attempt to define what "life problems" meant, but you felt free to tell me that nicotine was not causing you any problems. How were you able to do that?
What's wrong with you? Are you some kind of oxygen addict?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-15-2014 9:34 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 12-30-2014 1:07 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 331 (745942)
12-30-2014 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
12-30-2014 1:07 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Lets define addiction, for starters.
I'm probably not going to watch that video. That leaves me with responsibility of transcribing enough of the definition to discuss, and I think you should have done that.
I thought the definition you provided for addiction in a previous post was just fine except for the requirement that addiction must include intoxication. In short your definition was for addiction to psychoactive drugs and would need some generalization.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 12-30-2014 1:07 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Phat, posted 12-31-2014 2:00 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 331 (746154)
01-03-2015 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2015 11:48 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
No shit, that's why I challenged your definition. It didn't actually define, it just set up a taughtology.
There is no tautology. There is just a need to define "problem". I did not bother simply because I thought we could agree on what's a problem. But we did discuss example problems like lung cancer when you felt free to tell me that smoking caused you no problems.
As an example of where that was actually done, I point to the definition Phat cited regarding addiction to psychoactive materials.
You sure about that? I think nicotine is psychoactive, and that there is a non-zero amount of intoxication.
No. I am not sure. I don't have an opinion on whether tobacco is addictive. I'm just applying the facts you give me to the definition. Incidentally the definition is not my own. I lifted it from the definition used by psychologists to describe a number of addictions including gambling and alcoholism.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 331 (746205)
01-04-2015 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
01-02-2015 11:48 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
or two, never once has my body told me: "I kinda feel like shit, you should get some vitamin C in here".
You've never starved your body of vitamin C. If you do manage to do that you will feel some ill effects. You might even manage to get your mind to understand that the lack of vitamin C is the cause.
But if the vitamin example C bothers you, just substitute oxygen.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-02-2015 11:48 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-05-2015 10:43 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 331 (746318)
01-05-2015 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by New Cat's Eye
01-05-2015 10:43 AM


Re: The Science and Theory of Addiction
Both of those things are required to survive, silly.
Is that excluded using your definition?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-05-2015 10:43 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-05-2015 2:17 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 87 of 331 (793506)
10-31-2016 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Phat
10-30-2016 7:53 AM


Re: Day 105 as life marches on!
Keep on plugging Phat. I am glad to hear about your success.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Phat, posted 10-30-2016 7:53 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 11-02-2016 7:23 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 103 of 331 (794897)
11-30-2016 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
11-30-2016 1:25 PM


Re: Day 135
I am experiencing the feeling of recovery. Do i take full credit for that or is it possible that God helped? (Rhetorical Question)
Please forgive me if I find assigning credit and blame secondary to hearing about how you are doing. Keep pressing forward Phat.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 11-30-2016 1:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 109 of 331 (795044)
12-05-2016 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
12-04-2016 2:11 AM


Re: Day 140
This is day # 140, and I am mildly depressed wondering where all the promise of joy has gone.
You have every excuse for being joyful. By your own words, God is working with you to make a change in your life, and the change is manifest. Perhaps that is something to pray about. It may be that other circumstances are preventing you from feeling your current accomplishment.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 12-04-2016 2:11 AM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 129 of 331 (795889)
12-18-2016 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by RAZD
12-18-2016 3:09 PM


Re: Religious addiction?
Believing you must pray 3 times a day can be seen as possibly interfering or disrupting the lives of others
Please explain. If I pray 3 times a day, that will interfere with your life in what way? Disrupts your life in what fashion? Depriving you of the ability to live in a prayer free world?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2016 3:09 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by jar, posted 12-18-2016 5:07 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 131 of 331 (795904)
12-19-2016 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by jar
12-18-2016 5:07 PM


Re: Religious addiction?
If it needs to be done at a time when you are expected to be in a meeting but instead must be on a prayer rug facing Mecca
If you are skipping meetings in order to pray, you are probably going to be let go for missing meetings. As for your comment about serpents, isn't the real probably the pet and not the prayer?
I take your comment to mean that generally speaking you agree that there is not all that much substance to the idea that one person praying is an imposition on another persons rights and that the real problem is extreme behavior of the type that would be a problem associated with any activity. If you need to play video games instead of attending a meeting then your video game is an imposition.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by jar, posted 12-18-2016 5:07 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 12-19-2016 8:15 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024