|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
no nukes writes:
Interesting. I don't recall making such an analogy; at least not recently. Sounds like something I might say though. Well you said it alright a day or so ago. Also used the bar fight analogy.
no nukes writes:
Okay. What about 30, 40, 90 years old hearsay?
Some hearsay is allowed, and some isn't. no nukes writes: Let's see you back up your claims about precedence and Pilate's conceivable actions. Just how much do you really know about Pilate? How much do historians know? Ah crap, I have to look the thing up again. There's at least one paper on it specifically. The trial was a type never done before. So much so, you could almost swear they made it up. I have a few sources on this other than one paper. I've read them all but damn it's a while now. If I find the time, I'll try and re-find them. If I can't it's because I can't remember where.
no nukes writes: This argument was just as convoluted as when Faith used it Actually you were arguing to support they were very superstitious. So was I. Does that superstition not apply in some situations where it's not all that convenient for you?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You should be embarrassed posting this. I'm embarrassed for you.
faith writes:
I would hope my wife would commit me to a mental institute if I ever said something like this. NO roll is EVER random Are you serious? I'm scared you believe what you actually write. Its not as bad of a claim as you're making it out to be. In a deterministic universe, even dice rolls are not random. If you could measure every single force that was acting on the die, then you could predict which side it would land on every time. Its just looks random to us because the we don't know those forces.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Actually you were arguing to support they were very superstitious. So was I. Does that superstition not apply in some situations where it's not all that convenient for you? Sigh. Many people in the Bible were superstitious. I'm not avoiding that at all. But you are trying to make the claim that those ancient people (universally) don't meet modern standards with a sentence that lists a bunch of modern superstitions. Does that make the issue any clearer for you?
Okay. What about 30, 40, 90 years old hearsay? From what source? A 50 year old cash register receipt is hearsay evidence that my mom purchased the stuff on the receipt. Is it admissible?Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
GDR Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Golffly writes: Well you said it alright a day or so ago. Also used the bar fight analogy. I used the accident analogy - I don't think NoNukes did.He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
no nukes writes: Sigh. Many people in the Bible were superstitious. I'm not avoiding that at all. But you are trying to make the claim that those ancient people (universally) don't meet modern standards with a sentence that lists a bunch of modern superstitions. Does that make the issue any clearer for you? It's clear to me. They don't meet modern standards by any means. Believing fortune telling, casting lots, astrology is superstitious. Most logical people do not accept that today. Most everyone did with the ancients. That isn't credible. Not to mention resurrection was not unusual. We have Lazarus, daughter Jairus, and all the saints when graves were open. It's a regular zombie fest. Then other gods were resurrecting as well.
no nukes writes: From what source? A 50 year old cash register receipt is hearsay evidence that my mom purchased the stuff on the receipt. Is it admissible? Well the source is the problem. Who knows the source, it's not known.Unknown writing on a piece of paper is not a cash register receipt. And your Mom needs more than a receipt to prove SHE bought it. But I'd likely trust your mom and agree. The biblical, unknown, superstitious ancients with an agenda, copying and contradiction. Why trust that?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined:
|
gdr writes: I used the accident analogy - I don't think NoNukes did. Sorry no nukes. My error.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
Cat Sci writes: Its just looks random to us because the we don't know those forces. I change my thought. If I ever think god is controlling how dice come up. I hope my wife commits me.If I ever think god determines lottery winners, I'll commit myself. If I ever figure out how to fine tune my muscles in my hand, time it with my eye, control each die and get rolls I like. I will call myself a cheater. Otherwise it's all random.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I change my thought. If I ever think god is controlling how dice come up. I hope my wife commits me. If I ever think god determines lottery winners, I'll commit myself. Forget god, I'm talking about the laws of physics.
If I ever figure out how to fine tune my muscles in my hand, time it with my eye, control each die and get rolls I like. I will call myself a cheater. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Hell, have a robot do it. There are forces that act on the die that cause it to roll about and eventually land on one of its sides. If you could measure all those forces, then you could calculate which side it would land on.
Otherwise it's all random. If the Universe is deterministic, then there is no such thing as randomness. Then, randomness only comes about with respect to something. Like, with respect to our knowledge, a dice roll is random. With respect to the laws of physics, it is not. Its easier to imaging with a coin flip as there's only two sides. But when you flip the coin, you exert forces on that coin that cause it to rise into the air and flip over some number of times. If you could measure all those forces, you could calculate which side it would land on. Like, if you applied a vertical force of 0.1 newtons to the coin at 20 mm from the center from a height of 1 meter, it will flip over 19 times before it lands in the sand. It started with the head facing upwards so therefore it will land with the tails side facing upwards. That coin flip would not be random but if you didn't know the above information then it would look random to you. Or, it would be random with respect to your knowledge. Even with evolution, random mutations are not truly random. They have actual causes. What they are, is random with respect to fitness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
NoNukes writes: A 50 year old cash register receipt is hearsay evidence that my mom purchased the stuff on the receipt. Is it admissible? Steady, a till receipt is objective evidence that goods were bought by someone (unless forged). Who bought it would need to be established. None of that is hearsay.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
Cat Sci,
That is random. To the roller it's random. If a guy could calculate every force on multiple die. It's still random. It's random because it's an after the fact calculation. You can only calculate forces after the die have left the hand and the die roller isn't exerting any influence by multiple unpredictable ways of the die roller. It's random.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It's random because it's an after the fact calculation. I explicitly stated that we could predict the die roll. If you know the forces beforehand, you can calculate how the die will behave. That makes it non-random. The only thing that makes the die roll look random, is our ignorance of the forces that make us unable to predict it. Unpredictability is not randomness. In reality, its not actually random. The die will follow the laws of physics and land how the forces tell it to. There is no random element to it at all. This isn't some nonsense that I'm making up, how familiar are you with determinism?
quote: Randomness - Wikipedia
If a guy could calculate every force on multiple die. It's still random. That doesn't make any sense at all. Can you expound on that?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Astrophile Member (Idle past 148 days) Posts: 92 From: United Kingdom Joined: |
There are forces that act on the die that cause it to roll about and eventually land on one of its sides. If you could measure all those forces, then you could calculate which side it would land on. If the Universe is deterministic, then there is no such thing as randomness. This is badly off-topic, but I think that noise I can hear is Werner Heisenberg, Max Planck and Schrdinger's cat turning in their graves. Don't you remember Einstein's remark about God not playing dice with the Universe?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
Haven't you complained about people being overly pedantic in the past? Just saying.
This is an argument of semantics. For all intents and purposes the roll of a dice can be referred to as random. But if you want to be a pedant on it and use the word in way that very few people would care about or know about, by all means continue on. Makes you look a little silly though. None of this is meant as an attack, just an observation.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Don't you remember Einstein's remark about God not playing dice with the Universe? I do. Apparently Golffly's never heard it.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Golffly Member (Idle past 3101 days) Posts: 287 Joined: |
Cat Sci writes:
If a guy could calculate every force on multiple die. It's still random. That doesn't make any sense at all. Can you expound on that? Outside force. You can only calculate forces other than human.A human is not a robot and can never repeatedly do the exact movement that allows predictability. Others forces may very well be. The human factor is the one without predictability. Hence, random. And this is an absolutely absurd argument we are having. :-))))) Edited by Golffly, : spelling
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024