Do We NEED God?

What part about following the virtues of Love and such do you think is not acknowledging my own blindness? Because you don't think or believe that Jesus is necessary. You believe that we humans are equally capable of being like Jesus without needing Jesus. If there is such an aspect... how do you think Jesus could prevent this? If we enter into communion we are empowered by not only our own wisdom but of the wisdom of the One whom we are in communion with. Its a clear win/win in my eyes.Now for my question. If Jesus exists and is a conduit to God, is it still better--in your eyes---to attempt to develop your own virtues and character apart from the need for a boost or help? If so, do you believe that even in regards to communion it is better for the human society to have communion with itself---with no outside need of interference by a Creator?(If One actually exists)

What does the evidence say in regards to the progress of humanity?There are good things and bad things.
So far, we have managed to avoid a global war for nearly 70 years, though the jury is still out on whether or not we can avoid one forever. Some would say that we need God to save us from ourselves. Others would argue that the ideas in religion itself have added fuel to the wars. You bring up some good points, however. And I can't add to that or hope to influence you to think any differently. Quite honestly, I sometimes feel as if posting here at EvC is a form of therapy as I wrestle with my own inner demons and try and understand my beliefs and values---often by reading what I post and seeing how far short I miss the proverbial mark. Some would argue that it is not we who should be in our own drivers seat. The bumper sticker that says "God Is My Copilot" has it wrong. In essence, my belief is that weare Gods Copilot. Thus, the schematic would look more like this--at least ideally.Phat--->accepts Jesus...asks Him into heart and mind.Thus...Jesus--->Phat---->Love and other virtues.
Stile---->Love and other virtues. In essence, He would go through you.We know that each schematic works best for us...individually. Thus it is of no priority to attempt to convert you. What we need to figure out is how Jesus works through me...if in fact it is so.Edited by Phat, : added features! Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Some critics call it free will. To choose to surrender to a higher power or not. Others would argue that the action is not one of surrender so much as it is one of communion. I can't argue with this one. If I did, I would be crossing the line in discussion towards that of persuasion...I guess we could determine what it is that either works or does not work. thus--again--the schematics. Yours: And mine: The summation of our discussion as to whether Jesus is indeed the only way is based entirely on the agreeable idea that it is an individual decision and never one of contrived agreement...be it at church or be it at a discussion board.For me, much depends on the belief as to what Jesus represents and how relevant this flow(Spirit/Vibe) is to my life and my actions and my responsibilities/capabilities which I already have versus which I may need help with. Agreed. The important factor is whether you are honest with yourself.

How would one test for such things?

This is an excellent topic to pursue in the addictions thread. Can you join me over there?

I suppose that for your sake I should allow for humans to fill their inner emptiness the way that they so choose. (assuming that I were GOD...which I am not. ) Any God that could be so invented would not be much of a God at all now would it?

One thing that I really respect about you Stile is the disciplined critical thinking approach that you have regarding Faith & Belief.Based on the logic you gave Mike, would such logic not indicate more of an agnostic position rather than an atheist position?Would probability enter into such a picture or is probability impossible to figure out when pertaining to supernatural theories with no hard evidence?

I would argue that you are taking the Bible out of context. According to NT Theology, God would not be the One doing the wiping. Humans in and of themselves are quite capable of wiping themselves out of existence. The God whom I believe in has a vested interest in keeping as many of us alive as possible. If so, I wonder what will replace us? The God whom I believe in won't be killing anybody or anything...apart from the demons whom now torment us. I suppose you might be defending these poor demons in court...knowing you! And yes, peanut gallery...I believe that demons are real. As of today I am 30 days sober from an addiction that ruined my life for decades. Logically I won't blame my past failure on any demon, however.jar diagnosed my problem years ago when he stated that I prefer fantasy over reality.Let me state...again for the record....that I judge my beliefs as reality and not fantasy. Edited by Phat, : fixed broken link

the only people who get wiped out in the NT are the ones who follow the Beast.

Hey Stile... Its always good to talk with you and discuss our ongoing banter about theism, atheism, logic, reason, and reality. So here we go.... Noted.Notice, however, that you start out by saying you have information "about God." The only information that you actually have is your own imagination and the limitations thereof..given the evidence you have to work with. Additionally, you cannot say that a universe with a benevolent,loving, all-powerful God would be any different than the one we live in. Such a God may exist and yet the universe will be exactly as it is now. Follow me? Sure. This seems logical.I am definitely a believer. I have adequate internal subjective evidence to be reasonably certain that I am sane for believing. What I dont have is enough evidence..subjective or objective...to share with you. All that I can share with you, realistically is my personality--my character--and my thoughts and opinions. As you may say--if it works for you than great! Perhaps I have hard evidence subjectively whereas you do not. This too is logical. I would argue that some people have found such evidence...subjectively...that satisfies their curiosity. Others have not found such evidence. Indeed. Our time is limited. Otherwise I would keep writing this post for another hour...but I need to go pick up do-nuts and coffee for church. I'll be back later.

Yes, but according to that verse those people wipe themselves out. God does not wipe them out.They either did it or did not do it. Free choice.
Moral:
Be careful what you do for you are fully responsible for the outcome.

If God slaps you--yes He is responsible. If you go outside with no jacket and catch a cold, Nature is not responsible---you are for being knowingly careless. Besides...how do we know God is not involved in natural consequences?

I notice that you used the lowercase g. Had you used the term God, I would have questioned your affirmation as a believer. How on earth can you even mention logic, reason, and reality without acknowledging that God is in communion with humanity? Yes I know---how do we know? Sometimes, jar...you don't make sense. To a believer, the very idea of logic, reason, and reality insist upon communion with God. The Holy Spirit inspires us.Its not just air that we inhale.

But believers do have a monopoly(by default and by world view) on God. We believe that life itself is made possible only by and through God. The monopoly, in my mind, is God Himself. I believe that life itself is made possible by God and through God. To me, scripture is evidence. I question it, yet have no reason to doubt it. SPIRITpneuma NT:4151 primarily denotes "the wind" (akin to pneo, "to breathe, blow"); also "breath"; then, especially "the spirit," which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.SPIRITThe "Holy Spirit" is spoken of under various titles in the NT ("Spirit" and "Ghost" are renderings of the same word, pneuma; the advantage of the rendering "Spirit" is that it can always be used, whereas "Ghost" always requires the word "Holy" prefixed.)
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright (c)1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers) Being led by the Spirit involves walking in the Spirit and not the flesh/mind/ego. In my belief, this ability is not instinct. It is intention.

quote:

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Matt 4:1-2- Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.

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The inspiration to go fast in the desert was from God.Jesus did not simply decide to do it of his own accord.Granted, it would not be easy for an observer to tell whether a person was being led by the Spirit or whether they were simply doin what comes naturally....until one observed the fruit being produced by said person.

Sure. Lets start with "Creator of all seen and unseen."Edited by Phat, : sub title