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Author | Topic: Is Dispensationalism a cult? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So maybe his conclusion was correct?
Thats also what Lucifer concluded as he chose to become satan.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You've never had a problem with the freewill part. Your problem seemed to be the obedience or else part. From some critics perspectives, the idea that God foreknew the outcome of anyone who jumped ship was indicting God as an autocrat "unworthy" of worship. To each his own, I suppose.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Theodoric writes: Humor me. Suspend your disbelief for a moment and describe to me a god that would be worthy of your worship? Not anything worthy of worship. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: Humor me. Suspend your disbelief for a moment and describe to me a god that would be worthy of your worship? Sorry to interupt, but why would a God need worshipping?Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Tangle writes:
An omni-impotent god needs worshipping to help him overcome that inferiority complex.Sorry to interupt, but why would a God need worshipping? Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes, I do have a problem with the "or else" part. I'm guessing that you have a problem with "or else" in any other context. Your problem seemed to be the obedience or else part. Give me your wallet, or else. Do what I say for the rest of your life, or else. What's the difference?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9141 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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I cannot conceive of such a thing. As there is no evidence for a god, it is fruitless for me to try to conjure up some sort of image of such a magical being. Whatever I imagined would be woefully inadequate compared to what it would have to be in order to be a god.
Christians set their requirements for a god pitifully low.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: I have problems with people whom I dont know or trust attempting to tell me what to do...thats a fact.
Yes, I do have a problem with the "or else" part. I'm guessing that you have a problem with "or else" in any other context.Give me your wallet, or else. Do what I say for the rest of your life, or else. What's the difference? Seems like the problem stems from lack of trust. Should a God have to earn our trust or should He make us take a leap of faith? Lets say that trust is derived from knowledge. Perhaps lack of trust implies lack of knowledge. Many say that evidence is their only reliable standard for discernment of knowledge and character. This seems honest and fair enough.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Theodoric writes: Christians set their requirements for a god pitifully low. That He first loved us is enough for me. Who am I to require anything more than forgiveness and love? Some folks require that their god--if real--cure cancer, heal all disease and clean up the planet. Seeing no evidence for such a being, they conclude one does not exist and attempt to replace him with human global communion and hopeful cooperation. All I can say is good luck with that one.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo If You Don't Stand For Something You Will Fall For Anything~Malcolm X
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I can see why we'd have to take a leap of faith for a non-existent god. I can also see why a false god would want us to take a leap of faith - because that faith would be misplaced and could not be earned. However, I have trouble understanding why a true god would want us to take a leap of faith.
Should a God have to earn our trust or should He make us take a leap of faith? Phat writes:
I don't think that's it at all. Lets say that trust is derived from knowledge. Perhaps lack of trust implies lack of knowledge. We start out trusting our parents completely. They are omnpotent. They can do no wrong. But the more we learn about them, the more we know that that isn't true. Maybe you can't trust your father to come home sober on payday. As we grow up and become more like them, we learn that they are just like us. So I think trust starts out as a big pile which gets smaller as we learn, not bigger. Of course, our ability to tust does become more reliable as a result.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: Are you suggesting that we need to earn our faith? I can see why we'd have to take a leap of faith for a non-existent god. I can also see why a false god would want us to take a leap of faith - because that faith would be misplaced and could not be earned. However, I have trouble understanding why a true god would want us to take a leap of faith.Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No, I'm suggesting that a false god would fail to earn our trust/faith.
ringo writes:
Are you suggesting that we need to earn our faith? I can also see why a false god would want us to take a leap of faith - because that faith would be misplaced and could not be earned.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Sounds like you are proposing that a true God would provide us the power to believe.
If so, would this not detract from free will?Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes:
The product that we are discussing is religion--or--more appropriately in my mind--a relationship with GOD and/or a belief and pattern regarding my life interacting with other lives on this dust speck of a planet in this vast universe. Why do you always seem to drift towards dispensationalism? What is it in the product that you like? Why do you buy the product? What initially drew me towards dispensationalism was the relationship that I had with the late father of my Pastor. Though the family was a bit more conservative than I, the man lived a selfless life. I first met him at one of the state detention centers which I volunteered at. Additionally, his sons were friends with my "son"...my younger friend Mike. Tha family reached out to the community and helped them. The elder Pastor had three sons, two of whom became policemen (another way to serve the community) while the one son became a Pastor. My church is full of strong individuals. I don't agree with everything that is taught, and I question many things though I stick by what I believe.
jar writes: To start with, allow me to also explain what I don't like about the product which you bought. In another thread I asked
What is it in the product that you like? Phat writes: You claim that a God who picks and chooses is in fact evil. I maintain that God chose everyone but that some folk never bother to respond. Salvation by Grace assures me that having chosen, I have elected to be adopted. You may argue that this is an easy sell, seeing as how I don't have to do a lot of work. Joe Wood believed that the Warlord(who had enough food for everybody rather than just those who believed in him) should have fed everybody.What is the difference between offering someone food and force feeding everyone so as not to exclude anyone? I disagree, knowing that work is expected. Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
As I've said before, I think "free will" is pretty much a nonsensical concept. It's mostly a loophole that religionists use to absolve God of any responsibility for His actions. Sounds like you are proposing that a true God would provide us the power to believe. If so, would this not detract from free will? I don't know what "providing us with the power to believe" means. I'd put the power to believe in a similar category with the power to catch a cold.
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