Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
NoNukes writes:
But no, I cannot fully imagine the thought patterns of a racist who would want to 'shoot him some niggas'.
This goes back to one of my first comments in this thread, that I'm a "recovering racist". I have no trouble at all imagining the thought patterns of a racist. In fact, I have trouble getting rid of them. I'm a little concerned about the lack of introspection in somebody who can't - and a little suspicious.
Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
I would suggest that the policy is not racist in origin.
Really? I find I agree with Faith -- that it is hard to look at the all black line-up of photos of actual people and not see racism.
If it is a training exercise then generic pictures would suffice and it would be logical to have a mix of racial\ethnic types.
If it started with generic multiracial pictures, it certainly devolved into racist selection and use of blacks.
A resident arrested for drag racing. And the police are practicing shooting him in the head and calling it " facial recognition exercises"? Absolutely incredible.
Indeed. But I remember the 60's when folks in the south thought it was unnatural to associate with whites and blacks together ... and when whites got called N**r-lovers for protesting for voting rights.
Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
I have no trouble at all imagining the thought patterns of a racist.
I'm a little concerned about the lack of introspection in somebody who can't - and a little suspicious.
Hate is not hard to imagine. I hate spiders. But I don't kill them.
If you consider yourself to be a recovering racists, that's fine. But are you recovering from some mindset that would allow you to kill without reason? I suspect not.
In any event, you are welcome to your suspicions. Perhaps they will keep you honest if we ever meet.
Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
Really? I find I agree with Faith -- that it is hard to look at the all black line-up of photos of actual people and not see racism.
Seriously? All black targets might be racist. I'll grant that. But all black or all white lineups? That's the way police lineups are conducted.
How do you think photo line-ups ought to be conducted?
Because the way line ups are conducted is that the suspect is mixed in with people who look like similar to him but are known not to be involved. The race of the people in the lineup is chosen if the witness claims to know the race and is sure he can identify the suspect. If the witness picks the wrong guy, then the witness is considered to be bad.
Now if the police instead started picking on the guy the witness did identify, we might have some opportunities for a racist result. But that's not what happens.
If we mixed in a bunch of people who look nothing like the alleged perp, then guess what happens? The white guys get passed over and the witness takes a shot between a very few black guys.
You can reverse the roles of black and white or substitute any other prominent physical feature you want. Guys with face tattoos, Hispanic looking guys, long bearded guys, etc.. As a lawyer, if I found out that my white client was picked out of a lineup with a bunch of guys completely unlike him in physical appearance, (say three whites and three dark skinned blacks), I'm challenging the ID in court on that basis.
Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
If it is a training exercise then generic pictures would suffice and it would be logical to have a mix of racial\ethnic types.
That would be one type of training exercise, yes. But I submit that your logical approach is not the most effective.
Studies have shown that people are generally much better at distinguishing members of their own race than they are of distinguishing between members of different races. That problem has led to plenty of well documented mis-identifications and wrongful convictions..
That suggests that white policeman ought to be looking at faces of other folks. So should black policemen. And the more similar the faces looked at, the better the practice.
Studies also suggest that with just a little practice, we can learn how to make cross race distinctions more accurately. We cannot do much about the failures of the general public, but we can give the police department practice.
Frankly, I don't care what race you are. If you want to be a better policeman, you ought to be concerned about your unconscious tendency to think all blacks, Asians, whites, etc. look alike.
On the other hand, unless we are shooting people on sight, I don't see any purpose in combining such training with target practice.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
How many people last year were murdered by first-amendment ralliers?
Way to make my point.
What makes the first group of people a "gang"? Why are they not a group of citizens, formed into a well-regulated militia, keeping their neighborhood safe by exercising their Second Amendment rights? Do you have any evidence, at all, whatsoever, to make you think that they are a "gang" who have used their guns to perform illegal activities? Any evidence at all? A soupon, a suspicion, a smidgen, a scintilla?
What (black) could (black) conceivably (black) make (black) you (black) suddenly (BLACK BLACK BLACK) start (black) talking (black) about "gangs" (black black black) when you (black) see their black photo, (black black black) of them (black) carrying guns? I really (black) have no (black) idea, black black black. Black! BLACK!!!
Re: learned, internalized, automatic, unconscious ... can it be changed?
I'd rather assume that I am capable of such a thing rather than assume I'm not and wake up to reality one day surrounded by bodies.
Then no, you don't consider yourself recovering from the state of being a homicidal racist. You just assume.
And if you are a psychopath, you probably are not capable of the requisite introspection or the requisite restraint. You just might have that unfortunate result.
Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
The public response to two recent events seems to suggest that Americans are in love with the word 'racism', even when such accusations are difficult to support:
On Saturday, several dozen protesters holding signs and chanting "Black Lives Matter" - a slogan adopted by activists and protesters nationwide after recent officer-involved deaths of unarmed blacks - marched from the police department to the neighborhood where the shooting took place. ...
Koval said police responded to a call about 6:30 p.m. Friday of a person jumping into traffic. A second call to police said the man was "responsible for a battery," Koval said. Kenny went to an apartment and forced his way inside after hearing a disturbance. Koval said the officer fired after being assaulted by Robinson; Koval said he couldn't say how many shots were fired because it is part of the investigation.
Wisconsin's online courts database shows that Robinson, a 2014 graduate of Sun Prairie High School, pleaded guilty to felony armed robbery in October and was sentenced in December to three years' probation. A police report said he was among four teenagers arrested in a home invasion in which the suspects were seen entering an apartment building with a long gun and ran with electronics and other property. A shotgun and a "facsimile" handgun were recovered, according to the report.
What is the message protestors are trying to send to the police? What didn't justify the use of deadly force?
The Oklahoma Daily, the university's student newspaper, posted a Vine dating from 2013 that shows an older woman talking over a rap song, saying "ni****" seven times in quick succession.
The woman, who is seated with an Oklahoma shirt behind her, laughs before repeating the racial epithet. The sound of "All Gold Everything" from Trinidad James -- a black, Atlanta-based rapper -- can be heard in the background.
What's the cause for outrage? Should people not sing along to rap songs containing derogatory language? And why nothing to be said of the song's artist? Here are the lyrics:
This shit sound like 007 on N64 and shit Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah James
Gold all in my chain, gold all in my ring Gold all in my watch Don't believe me, just watch Nigga nigga nigga Don't believe me, just watch Don't believe me, just watch Nigga nigga nigga Don't believe me, just watch Don't believe me, just watch Gold all in my chain, gold all in my ring Gold all in my watch, don't believe me just watch
This ain't for no fuck nigga If you a real nigga then fuck with me This one for the hood niggas Hipster bitches that shop at Lenox Dark skinned, light skinned, Asian and White women Hypebeasts we know aboutchea' Don't buy shoes unless they popula' For the hoes, my nigga That's pussy popping at Magic City Got that strong, my nigga Then come match that shit with me Smoking mid, my nigga Then don't pass that shit to me This one for my niggas And bitches bout that money, (Cash Out) Gotta love, Chesire Bridge Them bad hoes at Onyx I don't fuck with no snitches So don't tell me who telling This one for them colleges Them bad hoes at Spelman Shout out to them freshmen On Instagram straight flexin' Popped a molly, I'm sweatin', woo Popped a molly, I'm sweatin', woo Momma always told me, Boy, count your blessings In God I Trust, so I kept counting them Franklins I'm too fly, you know this Lemme give your ass a checklist One gold watch, two gold chains Six gold rings, it's nothing, God Dayum OG Jordans, them high socks No shirt on, I'm stunting, okay And this song for them fuck niggas Who hating on you this summer, fuck em Talk shit behind your back But won't say shit in public, fuck em — Trinidad James "All Gold Everything" from Genius.com
Is America going nuts over shouting 'racism'? Does it just make for good news? Do people just love the drama?
Most importantly, what affect might this over-zealous jump to 'racism' have on our ability as a nation to have an honest and realistic discussion about race-related problems in our country?
Most importantly, what affect might this over-zealous jump to 'racism' have on our ability as a nation to have an honest and realistic discussion about race-related problems in our country?
In the last few years there has been no effort to have an honest and realistic discussion about race.
There have been many accusations, and increasing polarization instead.
This serves the interests of a few, but not the country as a whole.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Most importantly, what affect might this over-zealous jump to 'racism' have on our ability as a nation to have an honest and realistic discussion about race-related problems in our country?
Not that much since the racism is real, quite blatant, rampant, caustic and shows no sign of abating anytime soon. No "over-zealous jump" necessary. If you're black you live with it every day. If not, then you have no conception. We can't walk in their shoes. All we can do is listen and learn on a human level.
I was listening to this man on the radio last week - an amazing black, American lawyer:
Bryan Stevenson. An American lawyer, he is the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, a private, not-for-profit organisation working on death penalty cases, cases of children sentenced as adults, prison and sentencing reform, and issues of race and poverty.
His great grandparents were slaves and he himself went to a segregated school in southern Delaware. Although from a poor African American background he made it to Harvard Law School. Since then he has secured relief for over a hundred prisoners sentenced to death. He has argued in front of the Supreme Court six times and won landmark rulings about the sentencing of children for both homicide and non-homicide offences. His TED talk from March 2012 has been viewed over two million times.
One statistic stuck in my head. In this generation a black man in the USA has a 33% chance of finding himself in prison.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif.
Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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